Derren Brown Trick of the mind book

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Postby copyright » Dec 18th, '06, 01:35



If they are new to you, you are either aged nine, or a Martian. Brown offers a good deal of dusty stuff from the self-development shelves


I have to agree with most of what Mantel says in her review.

Derren Brown's book is simply a load of mildly interesting tidbits snatched from popular science books. His writing, although improved from Pure Effect is weak and immature.

Those of you who are old enough to remember when word processing first became popular will remember receiving documents written using 10 different fonts and covered in clipart. Later when the internet became more popular people started to put up web pages that continually flashed and blinked with hundreds of animated gifs. Derren Brown does the same thing with words.

Apart from the writing style itself, the content reads like an something written by an excited A Level student. Mantel is correct, in that what Derren Brown covers in his book is nothing new. As a writer, her nose is probably put out a bit that Derren's book is being pushed hard over Crimbo.

My problem with the book is this.

Derren Brown is a talented entertainer. He has done more for magic and mentalism in the UK than any other modern performer. Before Derren Brown, magic in the UK was a joke. The public image of a magician was someone in a glittery waistcoat and top hat or a man in a flowing blouse performing to a soundtrack. We've never been keen on magic in the UK. Paul Daniels, an original and creative performer, is a national joke, even though he had one of the longest running magic shows on television, featuring a different large illusion every week. Derren Brown's original performance style made magic/mentalism acceptable (somewhat) to a UK audience. The success of Derren Brown proves his intellegence and originality.

Why then are his books so poor? I won't go into Pure Effect but the root of the problem applies to that as much as Tricks of the Mind. That is, he is writing for an undemanding audience. His latest work is timed for the christmas market. His audience will largely be made up of people receiving the book as a present and read by the same people in the last half and hour of their christmas dinner's digestive journey.

Derren Brown, his publisher, and booksellers all know that his book will be lapped up by undemanding christmas shoppers. The motivation to write a worthwhile book will be lacking. Magic books, especially in the field of mentalism, are the same. The authors understand that their readers are largely made up of people who have never performed on stage, hence the page after page on performance advice redundant to anyone who's given their act more that 10mins original thought or have even thought of having an act. Another thing Derren Brown's christmas offering and mentalism books have in common is the assumption that their readers have never read anything more demanding than a few pages of popular psychology. In fact, Derren Brown shows in Tricks of the Mind that he doesn't even think his readers have done this much.

Derren Brown is obviously an intellegent and original thinker. He must be aware that his writing is poor and is content banal. Tricks of the Mind is obviously then a christmas cash-in. The book talks about fakes and fakery but at the same time, Brown must be aware of the pretentiousness of his writing and content.

What would have been more interesting for me, although not such as christmas hit as Tricks of the Mind will probably turn out to be, would have been a straight biographical account of his career in magic and mentalism.

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Postby bronz » Dec 18th, '06, 14:30

Is it an interesting book? Yes, if you don't know much about the subject matter beforehand (sorry for having the brain of a nine year old).

Is it easy to read and entertaining? Yes, although I again apologise for not enjoying having my head turned inside out every time I pick a book up.

Will it be ultimately beneficial to magic in general? Yes.

Do you enjoy watching lay people get all het up when they read it expecting a complete how to of Derren's work and are sadly disappointed?
Yes yes yes.

So it's funny, informative, well written enough for me and therefore most people (again I'm sorry for being such an utter Philistine, I didn't pursue formal education beyond A level) and it will do good things for the promotion of magic.

End of.

The artist who does not rise, descends.
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Postby Sexton Blake » Dec 18th, '06, 14:57

Tomo wrote:Why is a pulp fiction writer reviewing it for the Graun? Why not someone who can actually understand it? :wink:


I know this is exposure, Tomo, but let's reveal to the lay people of this forum (i.e. those who have nothing whatsoever to do with journalism) one of our secrets, eh? The thing known as the 'peg'. Editors, above all else, worship the peg. A peg is the topical 'thing' which provides a justification for a piece. So, if you propose an interesting article about, say, Saturn, you have little chance of the editor allowing it - What's the peg? Saturn's not in the news or anything, is it? However, you could do almost any tired, rehashed, slapped-together article on prostitution right now because (due to the terrible murders that are taking place) it has a good peg.

So, Mantel gets given Brown's book to review because... that's right: because she's just written a novel about a psychic. Brilliant.

Also, while I'm here and drifting (as always) off topic, here's the climax of a conversation I had with a senior person at the Graun a little while ago. I had written something and this person wanted to change a key part of it to something less subtle and more slack-jawed. I gave a long, air-tight and intermittently sweary argument for how my original version better in terms of being Not Stupid. The person sighed and, giving the final decision (against me, obviously) said:
"Your mistake is you over-estimate the intelligence of Guardian readers."
And the Graun is still the best newspaper out there. Man, I could weep sometimes, I really could.

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Postby Tomo » Dec 18th, '06, 15:08

Sexton Blake wrote:"Your mistake is you over-estimate the intelligence of Guardian readers."
And the Graun is still the best newspaper out there. Man, I could weep sometimes, I really could.

:lol: I just sell words, man. Editors sometimes call or email asking if it would be okay to change something as daft as A SINGLE WORD. I always say "of course you can. Do what you like with them. They're your property once I've invoiced for them." It beats ending up on the slush pile.

Ever had this?:

"I don't like this piece. Can you re-write it?"
"Sure. Just tell me what you want."
"I don't know, but I'll know it when I see it."
:shock:

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Postby Sexton Blake » Dec 18th, '06, 16:09

copyright wrote:
I have to agree with most of what Mantel says in her review.


That's fair enough. Your right to be profoundly incorrect is a vital plank of liberal democracy and I would fight for it to the death of any number of other people.

Less flippantly, do you perhaps think, Copy - and, genuinely, this isn't some kind of 'attack'; it's both idiotic and unpleasant to make arguments personal when they can be passionate, yes, but friendly - that your view might be just the tiniest bit coloured by your general hatred for 'popular science'? Now, I don't hate popular science at all. Quite the reverse. Bad science, or stuff posing as science, absolutely, but not popular science. But that's neither here nor there. Take away the fact that you see it as a popular science book (and so it's going to scratch at your eyes anyway) and stroke a pensive chin for one moment.

You don't like the writing style. Well, that's personal taste, nothing more. Charlotte Brontë hated Jane Austen. I think Brown writes in a lively, engaging way, and I laughed out loud several times reading the book. We have different tastes, and neither yours nor mine is 'correct' any more that one person has the authorative opinion on Marmite. This aspect then, we can put to bed with a gentle kiss.

You bemoan its being aimed at a general audience. I don't see anything wrong with that. Are you saying that the only books that should be published are those that are written for specialists and experts? That anything that is produced for a wider readership is, by definition - or, perhaps more accurately conveying your opinion, 'by necessity' - contemptible? I simply feel that Brown did a thing, didn't pretend it was another thing, and the thing itself is a perfectly honourable thing to do anyway.

Next, it seems you're suggesting that he took the lazy path. 'I will chuck out the most obvious book and the one that requires from me the least effort.' Yet, in my opinion, that doesn't describe TOTM. Here's what the lazy, obvious book would be:
* A third as thick.
* Lots and lots of colour photos of Brown standing by people who, as evidenced by their eyebrows, are Utterly Amazed.
* Stuffed with ‘Amaze You Friends With Psychological Magic!’ tricks - of the 'Predict a circle and a triangle' and 'But - aha! - there are no elephants in Denmark' variety.
* More photos: Brown with Famous People. (Who are also, or palpably about to be, Utterly Amazed.)

In fact, I can just imagine the dance of joy in the publisher's when Brown announced that he was going to include hardly any tricks, and instead concentrate on putting the case for a scientific approach to issues of social and political significance.
'You'll write about hypnosis, though, Derren? Yes? Please?'
'Indeed.'
'Thank God.'
'Though, of course, I'll spend a great deal of time undercutting any young boy's excitement that could evoke by ruminating on what hypnosis is, or, more likely, isn't.'
'I wonder if you could... just... reach into my pocket... for my... pills. Thanks.'

Do you not think?

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Postby Sexton Blake » Dec 18th, '06, 16:14

Tomo wrote: Do what you like with them. They're your property once I've invoiced for them."


You're going to love working with movie producers.

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Postby Marvell » Dec 18th, '06, 16:17

I've very glad that TOTM was not the celebrity chef's cookbook it could have been with enough pressure from the publisher.

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Postby Tomo » Dec 18th, '06, 16:26

Sexton Blake wrote:
Tomo wrote: Do what you like with them. They're your property once I've invoiced for them."


You're going to love working with movie producers.


"Always get the money" - that's my motto in writing.

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Postby Tomo » Dec 18th, '06, 16:38

As a general comment on how this thread might be going, we have to remember that it's a general book containing Brown's thoughts about belief and being fooled, plus a few other bits and bobs that perhaps are in there to satisfy the pub genius. It's not really for us, though I'm sure a lot of magicians and mentalists have enjoyed it. No, it's predominantly for the leity. It feels like a swansong, too. We know he doesn't really like the weirdness of fame (or the genuine weirdos he attracts). But writing this book to change minds feels pointless.

The problem is, as the late, great Joe Riding said in Advanced Cold Reading, that you can't convince people you're not psychic, only that you are. Funny old world, innit?

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Postby Renato » Dec 18th, '06, 18:35

I can understand the points about it being a little bit of a mish-mash...the structure seems a tiny bit askew, and it's on topics I've read about many times before - but I've only had this a day and am racing through it I'm enjoying it that much.

Familiar things such as the bits on hypnosis and such I read, completely engaged, because Derren has such a fantastic way of talking about these things (though I disagree with him to an extent on his thoughts about the existence of hypnosis). The only bits I skipped are the bits which are somewhat similar to parts of Pure Effect.

Other than that, I can understand the criticisms levelled at this book - but really I think it is a great read, the positives far outweighing the negatives. And I too think that at times this is incredibly funny.

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Postby copyright » Dec 18th, '06, 19:01

Less flippantly, do you perhaps think, Copy - and, genuinely, this isn't some kind of 'attack'; it's both idiotic and unpleasant to make arguments personal when they can be passionate, yes, but friendly - that your view might be just the tiniest bit coloured by your general hatred for 'popular science'?


Of course my view is coloured by various things. You're response to my comments is coloured by your view on various things. As you mention in your post, it is a matter of taste. You must be conscious of your own biases. Dismissing Mantel's review is surely coloured by your own view of Derren Brown etc. Turning your nose up at her as some kind of hack is pretty weak.

When you have an acquired taste, you can not go back. If you smoke premium cigars you can never smoke and enjoy a machine rolled cigar again. If you drink real coffee, you can't go back to instant. Something more than taste is going on. Given the choice, I'd rather eat sprouts than cabbage. There is not much of a difference between the two as a green vegatable, not enough to say with conviction that one is better than the other. However, when you acquire a taste for real coffee, or a premium cigar, fine wine, etc. You begin to understand the product and it's place in human history. Drinking a simple cup of filter coffee becomes something more than simply having a coffee. There must be something in your life, a taste which you've acquired, that you can relate this idea to.

When you then compare a cup of fine coffee, the work and care and centuries of history that goes into it with a simple cup of instant, the latter is repugnant. I'm well aware how this sounds, protentious, snobbery, and the rest. But even non-coffee drinkers can appreciate the difference between real coffee and instant. There is at least some recognition that they are probably missing out on something.

The same goes with writing. If you aren't interested in good literature, then fine. You can surely appreciate that some literature just is better than others? Even if acquiring a taste for good literature doesn't interest you, you must be aware that there is some quality that is good that good literature has - and that Derren Browns book doesn't have it.

Next, it seems you're suggesting that he took the lazy path. 'I will chuck out the most obvious book and the one that requires from me the least effort.' Yet, in my opinion, that doesn't describe TOTM. Here's what the lazy, obvious book would be:
* A third as thick.
* Lots and lots of colour photos of Brown standing by people who, as evidenced by their eyebrows, are Utterly Amazed.
* Stuffed with ‘Amaze You Friends With Psychological Magic!’ tricks - of the 'Predict a circle and a triangle' and 'But - aha! - there are no elephants in Denmark' variety.
* More photos: Brown with Famous People. (Who are also, or palpably about to be, Utterly Amazed.)


This simply isn't true. The book must be pretty much the same as the other books it's competing with for the christmas custom. Your description pretty much sound like Pete Firman's book or Paul Zenons. Nothing against either magician but it's obvious Derren Brown couldn't publish a book like that without destroying his career. This doesn't mean he can't write a cheap cash-in. He just needs to stick to a set format and churn out a cheap one. I could walk out of my office and within ten minutes find a handful of people who could churn out the same book as this in 2 months.

My problem with TOTM is not that it's banal or an obvious cash-in but that the author must be aware of this. He could have done so much better but didn't bother.

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Postby Sexton Blake » Dec 19th, '06, 01:05

copyright wrote:Of course my view is coloured by various things. You're response to my comments is coloured by your view on various things. As you mention in your post, it is a matter of taste. You must be conscious of your own biases. Dismissing Mantel's review is surely coloured by your own view of Derren Brown etc.


A valid point, in principle. I do indeed admire Brown for his thinking, his approach, and for what he has done for the image of magic in the UK. I also, as it happens, have views about the importance of rationality that fairly closely match those he puts forward. However, I don't have a poster of him in my bedroom which I kiss each night before I go to sleep. My conclusions are based on TOTM, not on any sort of axiomatic belief that Brown wrote it, so is must be good.

copyright wrote:Turning your nose up at her as some kind of hack is pretty weak.


I don't believe I called her a hack at all. The sole thing that could possibly be taken as that is the 'buffoon' bit, but that - I thought clearly (I may have misjudged) - was a jokey Partian shot. What I said was that it was smirking and self-aggrandizing: Mantel being more concerned with trying to make herself look good than fairly critiquing TOTM. Take this: "If you crusade against the exploitation of the credulous, should you know what "disinterested" means? And these days, even writers with no magic powers have a spell-check." That's 'I'm far cleverer, everyone' point scoring that's both childish and meaningless. Everyone, in their haste and distraction, makes slips and typos (I do it more than most). To attempt to attack their argument on the basis of these (rather than, if one must, lamenting a better proof reader and copy editor) is what’s weak. You, Copy, I fully believe, have language skills that place you in a high percentile. But, like everyone, your fingers catch the wrong keys while your mind is forging ahead. If, then, I were to begin my reply to your post by saying, as if through a languid yawn, 'Anyone who calls for high refinement in literature and argues that, once appreciated, lesser writing grates and annoys ought really to know that "You're response to my comments" should be "Your response to my comments", and that "it's place in human history" contains an apostrophe too many for the correct possessive,' I'd have been (a) not addressing your points at all - merely trying to bring you down by flinging mud, (b) trying to make myself look clever in the most transparently childish fashion, and (c) a tiresome git. You'd rightly view my words, as I view Mantel's there, as sophomoric.

copyright wrote:If you aren't interested in good literature, then fine. You can surely appreciate that some literature just is better than others? Even if acquiring a taste for good literature doesn't interest you, you must be aware that there is some quality that is good that good literature has - and that Derren Browns book doesn't have it.


I'm not about to plunge into a greasy abyss of citing specific reasons, but I am, in the opinion of people and organisations who would be widely accepted as carrying sufficient weight, able to identify good literature. And I stand by my opinion that TOTM is not 'literature', in the sense of High Art, but darn good writing - engaging, lively, amusing, joyful and coherent. It's not Thomas Mann, but Mann's style would have been a poor thing in this book, just as Henry Miller's sprawling, raw and amoral brilliance would be wrong in something of Mann's. Brown's writing exceeds, easily, what we could expect from a person whose profession isn't writing, producing a book for the mass market. Quite frankly, it exceeds the quality of some who are professional writers.

copyright wrote:The book must be pretty much the same as the other books it's competing with for the christmas custom. Your description pretty much sound like Pete Firman's book or Paul Zenons. Nothing against either magician but it's obvious Derren Brown couldn't publish a book like that without destroying his career.


Note that the example tricks I gave were purely psychological. Brown could easily have done that without disappointing those who must, for some reason, believe pure psychology is the basis of all he does. His career would have remained afloat.

copyright wrote:This doesn't mean he can't write a cheap cash-in. He just needs to stick to a set format and churn out a cheap one. I could walk out of my office and within ten minutes find a handful of people who could churn out the same book as this in 2 months.


Sorry, but I doubt it. Anyway, there's an aside where he says he wrote the book in an afternoon, while also watching the latest series of Lost. The humour in that obviously flows from the fact that he did, really, devote no small amount of time and thought to it.

copyright wrote:My problem with TOTM is not that it's banal or an obvious cash-in but that the author must be aware of this. He could have done so much better but didn't bother.


Ah, well. Probably this thread - or this aspect of it, at least - has run its course; because, as you will be aware, I think it's anything but obvious, to the point of the reverse being obvious.

So, still on friendly terms, we probably ought avoid troubling bandwidth with a flip-flopping 'Yes, it is,' 'No, it's not,' exchange from now until the heat death of the universe, and get back to discussing the pros and cons of rough-and-smooth. Though, I must add, disagreeing with you as I very much do, I find it a Very Good Thing that TM can hold opposing discussions that are fundamental, but don't collapse into the puerile bickering that makes many other Internet boards so tedious.

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Postby Tomo » Dec 19th, '06, 01:14

Sexton Blake wrote:
copyright wrote:Turning your nose up at her as some kind of hack is pretty weak.

I don't believe I called her a hack at all.

That's absolutely right. I'm a hack. She's a novelist reviewing a book.

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Postby copyright » Dec 19th, '06, 02:24

"If you crusade against the exploitation of the credulous, should you know what "disinterested" means? And these days, even writers with no magic powers have a spell-check." That's 'I'm far cleverer, everyone' point scoring that's both childish and meaningless. Everyone, in their haste and distraction, makes slips and typos (I do it more than most). To attempt to attack their argument on the basis of these (rather than, if one must, lamenting a better proof reader and copy editor) is what’s weak.


If you are referring this...

If you write on luck and chance, should you not check the meaning of "fortuitous"? If you crusade against the exploitation of the credulous, should you know what "disinterested" means? And these days, even writers with no magic powers have a spell-check.


Then you've missed the point she's making.

She's referring to the fact that Derren Brown mixes light-hearted soft-science flippery with controversial and distorted opinion and belief. The writing-style while poor may be still be palatable (many people really do enjoy instant coffee, while they are missing out on something better there is nothing wrong with enjoying a cup of instant). The problem is not that he is not a better writer in the technical sense but that he is not a better writer in terms of research and message.

His book is a contradiction. He rails against exploiting the credulous, but then does the same thing by exploiting his fame to pass of uncritical and over-diluted versions of other people's opinion as fact. Hence Mantel's jibe If you crusade against the exploitation of the credulous, should you know what "disinterested" means? It has nothing to do with punctuation and the occaisional typo.

The fact that no-one on this forum has commented on this only goes to show the credulity of Derren Brown's audience.

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Postby IAIN » Dec 19th, '06, 11:01

as much as im enjoying this mass-debate :oops: i must say, lets not get bogged down with trying to define what this book is and isn't...

it's whatever it means to the indivdual...

i've taken this book to be like a slightly booze enfused conversation with someone, possibly in an attic; where you spew forth all the little things within your mind and ordering more gin...

it's neither Baudelaire, nor Ben Elton...if you like the man, and wish to read about his views on certain things, then read the book - prentend he's sitting opposite you with a single malt and a fine cigar, or even sitting by your bedside, gently stroking your organs with his mind and reading it to you before suddenly punching you in the belly and pinching your nipples...

personally, i think its a very fine book, its not an instant, add-water and you're a mentalist book, but perhaps it might prod the interested and slightly obsessed in the right direction...

i also think he's put the book out the put other people off him...y'know, the strange types that push poo through his letter box, send him feathers, pieces of skin and other uncomfirmed matter...

The problem with critics in my book (not that i have a book out at the moment), is that its quite easy to sit on their overly large anus compartments and pull things apart without actually contributing much to the "arts" themselves...

i've not read the article, i refuse to read the article for no other reason that it makes some of what i've typed invalid, which i find rather enchanting...and its in the Guardian of all places...i refuse to touch any newspaper unless im on the toilet or in a greasy spoon (spot the difference) where there it's du rigeur...

anyway, its only ten snifters via amazon...and as for mis-use of words, one of my secret bugbears (i have several) is when people say "I'm playing devil's advocate" when they take a deliberate opposing viewpoint..that's not actually the real meaning of the phrase...so I'm sure 99% of people do it, and I'm quite pacific when i say that... :wink:

EDIT: the misuse of slander and and libel get my goat too... :idea:

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