talkmagic.co.uk

The thing for people who react badly to Craig's posts to consider is that if he were deliberately being an "azz", would he include so much info or just lay into people?

Sure, he namedrops Cassidy so much people might wonder if he's on the payroll, but having read Cassidy myself, I know what he's on about.

The only thing to add is that rants against Randi or Rowland come across as personal malice. Life's too short to pick at scabs.

Ok... I'll give you the points on my disrespect for the cynic's movement (not skeptics mind you, but cynics... which is what those two tend to be more than not; I am a skeptic and association with people that what things as cut & dry as those do simply makes me (and many others) feel dirty.)

When it comes to quoting or referring folks to Cassidy or Webster... well, they are two of the living gods to mentalism as far as I'm concerned... they are where I get a huge chunk of validation when it comes to what I see and percieve. They aren't the only source via which I find confirmation on things, just two of the more accessible sources I know of that I can send everyone else to... the last thing I want anyone to think is that I believe I'm the only one that knows what's what... I promise you all, I'm not!

Anwho... thanks to all of you for your in put. I really needed to know if what these people were saying had any meat to it or not. I know I can be "bullish" as a few of you put it, but I'd like to think I'm fair and at least explain why I say some of the things I say... I know it don't come out very clear (at first) in some cases, but we usually get through it.

I just hate seeing what was once a fun and great forum devolving into another Cafe type cult, which this particular one (the place where I'm getting attacked) seems to be heading towards at warp speed. I just hope that we are able to keep some sense of sanity and dicorum on this site and not let the wannabes take over via the squeaky wheel technique... I'll let you all think on that one

It reminds me of the concept that my old wing Chun teacher used to instill into us. That is that not only the student should listen to the teacher but also the teacher to the student.
No he wasn't Mr. Miagi or anything like that

Anyway it is just that all levels of experience should listen to each other when learning or discussing as everyone has a point to make and each is as vaild as the next.
As long as you continue to operate with an open mind at any level then creativity and the evolution of any artform will flourish.
Very Zen...ish

Craig.

Your style of writing can take sometimes take a while to get used to but what you do write is well written, makes sense and is so much better than much of the poorly written and badly spelled grammar that we see far too often.

I for one am glad that you are here and even though I'm not into the mentalism thing, I still find your writing a joy to read.

Craig

Most of what I would have to say has been said. I generally agree with what you say, and have learned more from you from this board than I have in most of the books I have purchased.

That being said. I think how you come off is perfect. You serve a dish of cold hard reality that has an aquired taste. People ready for such a meal will dig in and be full of wonderous insight. Those who are so turned off by the look and smell, not even willing to take a taste are probably not ready for the rush of flavor you provide.

You've appointed yourself the authority on mentalism and mentor to those who post on the subject. There is a lot of grovelling hero-worship in magic, probably because magic attracts children and adults with confidence problems. I can imagine that it's hard not to get frustrated and bullish with these posters.

In my experience, people in magic tend to have very low aspirations. Guys who tour the clubs, table-hop, and so on, are treated like gods. Again, this is probably because three-quarters of forum posters, convention-attendees, etc. are still in school or eking out a living in some call-centre or civil service job. So yes, it can be frustrating with these people.

If I look in Time Out for mentalism events, there are none. Why is this? There are people posting on magic forums who act like authorities in mentalism and are in the London area. Why aren't they putting on any shows? Either because they're all talk or they've got something better to do.

So yes, magic forums are heaving with posters who haven't got the brains, the balls, or both to develop their skills and remember than magic is a performance art.

However, there are those who aspire to more in life than entertaining people while they eat their dinner or to be on the small stage four nights a week. If you choose a career in medicine, engineering, etc. rather than mentalism it doesn't automatically put you in the mentor-required category.

Like you Craig, I'm an arrogant azz-hole and like you I feel I've done enough to deserve it. I don't post on this forum to get advice, unless I explicitly ask for it, and I certainly don't post asking for permission to do anything. I appreciate where you are coming from in many of your posts but some of them just seem to be the same old unqualified opinion dished out again and again.

For instance, if someone makes a post saying they have an idea, it's a certainty that you will post telling them that they're not as original as they think they are, that they should send their ideas to one of the 'big boys' and let them test it out for 10 years and so on, and so on.

To cut a long rant short, 25% of posters on magic forums, will think your and azz-hole and call you everything but a whiteman and 75% want to be told exactly what to do and when to do it, and will welcome your mentorship.

Craig, if you only read one thing from my post, read this:

If you stop posting the way you do now, I will drive over to your house and beat you with a stick until you come back to our senses . (Just a joke of course...or was it ?)

Past Private Performances have included personal demonstrations for Presidents Nixon, Ford & Carter as well as Dr. Henry Kissenger, Prince Andrew of the United Kingdom, The Dom Delouise family, George Burns, Steven Martin, Carl Reiner, Brook Shields, Mike Farrell & Family, Orson Wells, Carey Grant, Lucille Ball, Horace Hiedt & Family, The Van Patten Family, and the King Family... just to name a few...

That, and that alone gives you enough rights to say exactly what you have on your mind, not to mention all of your other achievements.

I will however say a few things on a personal note:

I do not consider you to be an 'azz', you are everything but an 'azz'. You are one of the most informative people on this forum, and I greatly, truly, and deeply respect everything that you say. I re-read your posts 10 times and learn something new every time I re-read it. The way you write the information, never mind the information itself is inspiring. A** would not be the word do describe you, it would be more like frank and I greatly respect anyone in general who has the balls to be as frank as you are. You are not afraid to speak your mind, and we all benefit when you do.

I will know I am a successful magician when I am half as insightful as you are. Everyone on this board, myself included, would be delighted to have a mentor like yourself.

I would just like to address one thing that magicdiscoman has said

this forum unlike a few I could mention is populated by members that fall into two camps.
1) Old school magicians that believe that taking 20 years to perfect one trick is justified and expected.
2) New school magicians who want to learn it all as quickly as possible and get out there with the minimum of practice and make a name for themselves and be the next Blaine.

I highly disagree with that. Yes the majority of people are like that, and I am sad to say that applies to this forum too, but not everyone and that is a fact I can prove.

I believe that taking 20 years to perfect one trick is justified, but have not even been on this earth for 20 years so technically, I am not old school. Considering I am 13 a lot of people on here might classify me as a new school magician (please do not however), but I in fact never try to learn it all as quickly as possible and always practice for hours on end before even attempting to show a trick to my family. I am also not a huge fan of Blaine just because he uses camera editing in his videos and I am a firm believer in that magicians should not use camera editing and call it magic.

I like to think of myself in a third category along with people like Wayne Houchin and Daniel Garcia- young people who love magic, have been doing it for more than half of their lives (I have been interested in magic for 9 years and have been doing it for 7...of course when I was 6 I could not do a lot of "good" magic, but I was still performing for friends and family)...and want to continue doing if for the rest of their lives. Maybe people like Wayne (and hopefully soon enough myself...I am not rushing to become famous like you categorized new school magicians, but I have an ambition of become big after even more years of hard work, sacrifice, blood, sweat, and tears) are protégées and exceptions to your categorizes, but I like to believe that not everyone can be grouped.

Sorry if I rambled a bit off topic, and if my post is not too clear. Like most of my posts, I wrote this one very late and when I was very tired.

Keep up the good work Craig,
~David

David, you write well and passionately for someone of your age. I don't mean to be patronizing but it's impossible not to be. In the same way, it is impossible for a thirteen year old to tell when one adult is being patronizing towards another adult. While I admire your intentions, your post simply proves mine. On a forum such as this, a person cannot have one posting style for all people. Thirteen year olds want and appreciate mentors while most thirty year olds do not. When Craig gets people's backs up, it is when he doesn't distinguish between the two.

Craig - I would like to echo pretty much what everyone else.

Don't change a thing.

Sure you get up some peoples noses occasionally but your perspective is quite breathtaking at times. Whether or not we think you arrogant at or not is irrelevent, we all have the greatest respect for your experience, background and general knowledge on just about every genre of magic.

I (and I am sure many others here) have followed your writings on online magic way before you discovered TalkMagic, so for me it is a honour that you wish to spend time posting here. I couldnt have any more respect if you were Banachek or Kenton K. himself.

Your contraversial style has sparked many a heated debate that has always made people re-evaluate their thoughts on whatever the subject at hand has been. Long may it continue.

Simon

I don't want to sound rude - and Craig, you know I have nothing but the utmost respect for you.

BUT

Exactly why do you care what people have said?

In every single post I've seen from you, I've seen nothing but supreme confidence in yourself and what you're saying. All of a sudden you're self conscious?

This whole thing has a "woe is me" vibe to it. Quite frankly, I think you're well above this kind of thing, sir.

edited my post to reflect david's crievence, david your definatly old schoool.

Demitri wrote:I don't want to sound rude - and Craig, you know I have nothing but the utmost respect for you.

BUT

Exactly why do you care what people have said?

In every single post I've seen from you, I've seen nothing but supreme confidence in yourself and what you're saying. All of a sudden you're self conscious?

This whole thing has a "woe is me" vibe to it. Quite frankly, I think you're well above this kind of thing, sir.

I appreciate what your saying and where you're coming from in this Demitri, but as a realist I am forced to look at how my actions can detour from the message as well. What I've learned here and at the one or two other forums where I've asked this question, is that I'm not in the wrong... not in the way these others want to paint me. That's what's important.

Craig i beleive a forum is about lenghty disscussions and sometimes heated and who can provide that better than you. Yes i will agree that sometimes you come across a bit arrogant but that does not that matter if the points your putting across are actually informative and yours are. I think that most people sort of rebel against you because your persona comes across to be the sort of know it all daddy of talkmagic. To be honest nobody likes a know it all smartass because were all jealous of the amount of information you have and when i was young i always rebelled against my dad even thoe he was mostly right just for the sake of it. I have a couple of heated disscussions with you but the heated disscussion we had kept me thinking for about a week whether i was right or wrong and no one else on this forum has done that to me yet. I think your attitude comes across the wrong way sometimes but i dont think you mean it to. Long may your heated disscussions continue. The one thing i respect about you is that you never refer to insults even when you are taking all the stick.

I see your point, Craig. But again - I'm just curious as to why your confidence seemed to waiver at this particular point. It just didn't make sense to me, given how confident you've always been.

Demitri. You ask why Craig waivers at this point.
Well. When one is young one knows it all. When one is a bit older one begins to learn it all. When one reaches the years of discretion one queries what one knows. The true artist always quetions and queries. That is how he advances all his life, never reaching the goal but always trying.
Craig is a true artist. He seeks the truth. Who am I?
And what he learns from this truth , thankfully he passes onto others.
Many, many of today magicians, with their quick learning from those to be dreaded as well as respected dvds and buy it in the morning and perform ( I use the word with caution) at night,will never be true artists.
Craig's writing is fascinating, erudite, often deep but above all it is backed with a lifetime time of experience. His work often shakes me, frightens me, fascinates me, enthralls me, niggles me,enlightens me, but always makes me rethink and question my approach to the Magic Art I have followed with great love and even greater passion for 65 years.
Hopefully any true magicians will do the same and then pass on their work, their thoughts, their opinions, their everything to the generation that is and the generation that is to follow
Carry on as you are Craig and as Mandrake says ' Sod the rest'!!
Allen Tipton