talkmagic.co.uk

Just to let you know the petition is currently off-line

Mr. B

I'm sure most of what I'm going to discuss has already been said, but I got as far as the third page and got side tracked thinking about Fred and Ginger. As far as youtube tutorials go most of the tricks being taught involve specific equipment. I'll use spongeballs as an example, as I imagine everyone is familiar with them. If you're trying to learn how to do spongeball magic then chances are you already know how to do the trick. Maybe not how to do it well, but you know the secret off the trick. This invalidates the need for a tutorial showing you exactly how it was done. I've been learning by just watching people perform the trick and then picking up how they handle them, which way they stuff the balls in, etc.

To get to the point, if you are learning a trick watching the trick performed well pretty much shows you how to do it. If not then it at least gets you thinking to work it out or how you could do it. It was part of the fun of magic as a kid was trying to work it out. Explanations are only benefiting people who probably don't really want to learn the trick. The best way of getting better at these things is to practice yourself and work out your own way of doing these tricks.

I saw a tutorial for an appearing cane. That was about as pointless as tutorials get, as for this you have to spend about £20 to buy the cane in the first place. Then when you've bought it you know how it works. This tutorial served no purpose as a learning tool it just served to expose a simple, but visually appealing trick.

As far as stopping dvd clips getting put on there, that is down to the magicians whose videos are up. But the exposure of magic is stopping the tricks being as interesting for many people. While the odd bit of exposure is nice to force magicians to step their game up the level it has got to now has got a bit too far. It's up the point where it's spoiling peoples livelihoods. People aren't fussed with paying to see a load load of tricks they understand.

Anyway will sign if it ever gets sorted again, back to being distracted by ideas of Fred and Ginger.

I would certainly sign it if it is available again. I'll keep an eye on this thread and encourage others to do the same. Rachel.

Rachel Milano wrote:I would certainly sign it if it is available again. I'll keep an eye on this thread and encourage others to do the same. Rachel.

What's the point? The clips are awful and only serve to teach spotty kids how to do magic very badly in the vain hope that it will impress their mates and get them into bed with a girl. There are plenty of things in life to worry about. Rubbish "magic" "tutorials" on youtube are not one of them.

Magic is about presentation. I don't see many of the youtube videos teaching that particularly well.

Magic is about presentation. I don't see many of the youtube videos teaching that particularly well.

Precisely that. What does need to be stopped however, is people uploading clips from real professional DVDs.

Yes...I think that is the real concern here Paul. That legitimate stuff is being exposed. Of course many people will take this and do it very poorly and that is where your point comes in. They don't understand that great magic involves presentation. Rachel.

I think that the people exposing magic to the general public are to blame, not the mediums (no pun intended) by which they do it.

They are not magicians if they expose if the oath is anything to go by, they are a disgrace to the magical community...

thats my rant over. A good first post don't you think .

Unfortunately I must admit that I myself have watched a few of these "revealed" videos

But I can assure you from a beginners point of view that they don't help much. Most people who watch them have no idea whats going on anyway, and if they don't want to discover the trick themselves, they won't want to practice, and will thus fail during a performance.

Should you have one of these people in your audience (happened to me at school once) I think it is best to always have a back up or alternative way to complete the act. I love it when an audience member tries to call you out and you make them look foolish

(P.S.) I feel the need to apologize to the hard working magicians out there who are having their tricks exposed by half-wits on the behalf of the beginners who have ever watched one of these vids.

Elemental

I will sign as soon as the sight is back online, because I think that it is so wrong to reveal tricks on a widely used website for the whole world to see your secrets. It needs to stop, it ruins peoples' reputaions.

Ace of diamonds wrote:I will sign as soon as the sight is back online, because I think that it is so wrong to reveal tricks on a widely used website for the whole world to see your secrets. It needs to stop, it ruins peoples' reputaions.

Ace of Diamonds, you just a few minutes before this posted advice to someone linking them to a website which reveals tricks for free. Please.

you can try other website

Christ,
I've been away for a whie now and we're still on this hoary old chestnut. Why exactly is buying a DVD of rehashed tricks (maybe some of originality) and paying for the privilige of doing so any less "exposure" than buy a copy of RRTCM and teaching an interested individual how to do an illusion?

I'll give a career example. I'm a veterinary surgeon. I'm going on a course next week to learn a specialist technique. It will cost my organisation about 1000 quid. Am I not to share my knowledge?

I tried to sign but the site is down at the moment I will try later...

Jack

there is a problem with the site at this moment, so I will wait and as soon as it comes online, I will sign it and see if I can get some friends to sing it also.

I really do believe this is an important issue, but also, magic is under attack in some ways, due to the way it has been portrayed, so we need people to change how people see magic and how we use magic.

Please remember that Robert Houdin was said to have stopped a war with the Light and Heave chest.

This to Fletch,
I understand what you say, but it is not the same, the need for medical information is not the same as the need for magical information,
Magic just needs a change, thats all, people need to share differently, its good to share, just maybe when you have mastered what you are sharing and you have been asked, maybe telling everyone in the world is not the way.
If I would like to pass on a secret, I will pass it on from to the the person I feel needs the information, I will not place it in full view for everyone to see.
I know that with magic, i am not out to deceive, I am out to amaze and create wonder in life.

I want to inspire, I will not inspire people by showing them the secrets of my magic, I will inspire them by transporting them to another world, then, if they really want, i will show them how to create that world also.
Not everyone really really wants to create that world for people, so why show all.
Our society is a throw away one, so it is up to us all to change that.
So we must take a stand, that is what this petition is about, but it is not enough, the magic community must take a stand, they must speak out and inspire people once again.
It is up to us all to change the face of magic and its up to all the people of the earth to change human kind.
We have the choice now, will we take it, lets say yes and be a positive power in these hard times.

Kim Flores

fletch wrote:Christ,
I've been away for a whie now and we're still on this hoary old chestnut. Why exactly is buying a DVD of rehashed tricks (maybe some of originality) and paying for the privilige of doing so any less "exposure" than buy a copy of RRTCM and teaching an interested individual how to do an illusion?

Because in itself there is nothing wrong in this, if buying a copy of some DVD and sharing the knowlege found there in with a few interested individuals was what this thread was all about, but it's more than that, and IMHO a lot more than that......it's about exposure of magic and the state of magic as a whole today because of websites the likes of You Tube, Card Trick Central to name just two....expose magic secrets to the general public.

These sites expose magical secrets without a thought or care as to who is accessing them.....Tricks are submitted and explained or exposed and as has already been said by doing particular effects badly and in my book, a trick badly done is just as good as exposure...

In the case of Card Trick Central, other peoples tricks and effects are Stolen, renamed and then submitted in other peoples names....without a credit to the original creators and then exposed to the general public as this site doesn't even have a restricted entry....on just glancing through Card Trick Central, I found at least four effects in the intermediate section, lifted straight out of RRTCM but given different names and credited to the guy who submitted it to the site....

fletch wrote:I'll give a career example. I'm a veterinary surgeon. I'm going on a course next week to learn a specialist technique. It will cost my organisation about 1000 quid. Am I not to share my knowledge?

As has already been said it's not the same, You wouldn't share that knowledge with the guy you meet in the pub or your next door neighbour....but even if you did it wouldn't matter too much as he would either get bored as it takes too long to learn anything significant to matter or he would be interested because he is taking a genuine interest....But you could pick and choose the knowlege you impart to him and could control who you impart that knowlege to and vet (no pun intended) them so you impart it to people with a genuine interest....

You wouldn't on the other hand put up your knowledge in the public domain, the knowledge your company spent £1000 sending you on that course to learn if the knowledge was free to learn by accessing a website....they could have saved themselves that £1000 or more depending on how many £1000 courses they have paid for.....Just my two pence worth....

Edited in: I already put this in when I originally posted this.....so I am editing it in again.....although the wording might not be exactly the same...was it removed???

Fletch, I was very surprised to read in your last post that you think this is a hoary old chestnut, I really thought your were more passionate about magic....however, sadly I think I am mistaken.