talkmagic.co.uk

Signed!

Has anyone posted this link on the E forums??

That would be alot of signatures.

edit : yeah they have, I checked.

They also had one member who had a pretty good idea, he said when we legitimate magicians upload a clip to youtube we should give it a random name and random tags. So then when we upload a clip to youtube, people can only find it if we give them a direct link.
Might also be a good idea to upload lots of 'empty' clips with the tags 'magic', ''sinful/indecent'' and ''exposure''. Then it would make the real exposure vids very hard to find.

Also I've had an idea for wikipedia, rather than deleting the info all together, couldn't we just change it in very subtle ways. Like for example change 'right hand' to 'left hand'. And 'little finger' to 'forefinger'. This might sound silly, but it would have the effect of where whenever a layman reads it he gets confused and thinks ''too complex, i'll leave the magicians too it''. Could also stop people from noticing it so easily that the page has been edited.

I just feel that magicians have always been crafty and sneaky in protecting our techniques in the past, why stop now?
Or am I just too desperate to stop exposure?

It really bugs me this...I've only been into learning magic for a short while, but why try n learn from some fella on t'internet, when you can get all sorts of weird n wonderful stuff on vids/dvd if you're that way inclined (or books if like me you're into the reading, more reading, then go back n read again approach!) plus you never really know if he's got it right since people I class as true magic performers enjoy keeping the secrets, it's sort of part of the act as far as I can tell! ho hum...t'internet who needs it eh...oh...ahem... ok I get the good points too

supermagictom wrote:Has anyone posted this link on the E forums??

That would be alot of signatures.

edit : yeah they have, I checked.

They also had one member who had a pretty good idea, he said when we legitimate magicians upload a clip to youtube we should give it a random name and random tags. So then when we upload a clip to youtube, people can only find it if we give them a direct link.
Might also be a good idea to upload lots of 'empty' clips with the tags 'magic', ''sinful/indecent'' and ''exposure''. Then it would make the real exposure vids very hard to find.

Also I've had an idea for wikipedia, rather than deleting the info all together, couldn't we just change it in very subtle ways. Like for example change 'right hand' to 'left hand'. And 'little finger' to 'forefinger'. This might sound silly, but it would have the effect of where whenever a layman reads it he gets confused and thinks ''too complex, i'll leave the magicians too it''. Could also stop people from noticing it so easily that the page has been edited.

I just feel that magicians have always been crafty and sneaky in protecting our techniques in the past, why stop now?
Or am I just too desperate to stop exposure?

I totally agree with all of that! What a great idea. i have already changed some of the wiki's exposure pages by changing just the important words.

I'll be totally up for helping creating the videos on youtube and editing the wiki

supermagictom wrote:Has anyone posted this link on the E forums??

That would be alot of signatures.

edit : yeah they have, I checked.

They also had one member who had a pretty good idea, he said when we legitimate magicians upload a clip to youtube we should give it a random name and random tags. So then when we upload a clip to youtube, people can only find it if we give them a direct link.
Might also be a good idea to upload lots of 'empty' clips with the tags 'magic', ''sinful/indecent'' and ''exposure''. Then it would make the real exposure vids very hard to find.

Also I've had an idea for wikipedia, rather than deleting the info all together, couldn't we just change it in very subtle ways. Like for example change 'right hand' to 'left hand'. And 'little finger' to 'forefinger'. This might sound silly, but it would have the effect of where whenever a layman reads it he gets confused and thinks ''too complex, i'll leave the magicians too it''. Could also stop people from noticing it so easily that the page has been edited.

I just feel that magicians have always been crafty and sneaky in protecting our techniques in the past, why stop now?
Or am I just too desperate to stop exposure?

What a brilliant set of ideas!

Guys, tell me which tricks I should make the videos of. I dunno if you peeps would know the most popular tricks people sarch for or anyhting like that.

Guys, tell me which tricks I should make the videos of.

Wouldn't have thought you have to even make a video of magic, just put up a 5 second clip of yourself snoozing but useing the magic keywords exposure & give it any trick name, hopefully if enough of this kind of rubbish is uploaded then those searching will get fed up trawling through the c*** (not the best).

By the way the original petition link isn't working, nor is the paste it link, is it now out of date, has it changed or is it just 'cos I'm overweight???

Johnny Bravo wrote:Wouldn't have thought you have to even make a video of magic, just put up a 5 second clip of yourself snoozing but useing the magic keywords exposure & give it any trick name, hopefully if enough of this kind of rubbish is uploaded then those searching will get fed up trawling through the c*** (not the best).

Or you could just upload a video file with you saying "naughty, naughty! If you've made a genuine mistake and you're after learning magic you could try some books like ... and dvd's like ...." fill in the blanks with your recommendations!

I did think about saying come to TM and find out how to go about learning then I thought, don't really want to increase the "hey guys how i learn x trick" sin bin type posts!

lmw.

In despite of the reasons pointed out, I disagree with the petition.

As long as the trick exposed in youtube is not a copyrighted one, I fail to see where is the nature of the difference between it and a book sold out in amazon. If it's in a book regularly sold (and it's not copyrighted), it's part of the commom human knowledge, as far as I see it. It may be unethical in the point of view of the magicians's ethics, but these ethics can not be made mandatory to the average people.

It reminds me of Umberto Eco, in his The Name of the Rose (free translation from the portuguese version): "...not all the truths are for all ears, nor all the lies can be recognized as such for a merciful soul, and the monks are in the scriptorium to do a precious work, for which they must read some and not other volumes, and does not just follow any curiosity that may strike them, for weakness of the mind, for pride or for devilish suggestion."

We've discussed these ethics many times and the difference is that books have to be bought which means only those who are seriously interested will part with their cash to learn such secrets. Exposure on youtube and similar involves no payment, in fact it may very well be losing money for the inventors of the tricks if it's a copyrighted one. If it's pubic domain then there may not be such issues but why expose the secrets anyway - surely that destroys the magic?

I think what Presto is trying to say is if there's no copyright surely its fair for anyone to own ala now a days anyone can publicly play songs over a radio that are 50 years old.

So if someone is on YouTube & explaining how to do a DL & as a DL is older than 50 years this is okay, but if someone is on youtube explaining how to do Stealth Assassin Wallet then this is not okay, am I right in understanding that Presto?

If so I do disagree strongly. Until I got into magic I had no idea of what a DL was & had I known I'm sure that a lot of tricks I saw done before I knew the dl method would not have impressed me nearly so much.

I 1st found out about a dl from Oz Pearlmans Born To Perform, great video, the money of which has gone to Oz & the developers etc & inspired new products to be made as well as feeding families etc.

If you get into magic then it becomes either a very big hobby, a job or both & you spend lots of time practising & lots of money buying & learning. And I really don't want my perfected dl or whatever other sleights I've spent ages learning exposed on youtube or anywhere else.

See where we're coming from?

Now can someone pop up the correct link so I can sign the petition.

Thanks for the link, signed, sealed & delivered.

Signed.

We could just add ''exposure'', ''explanation'' and ''tutorial'' to the tags on all our old videos that we have already uploaded.
If everyone with video's adds those tags to all of their existing videos, then we can ''pollute'' the search results much quicker.

Also since Magic Video Depot allegedly has 45,000 members,(most of which probably have youtube accounts also) maybe we should suggest the idea to them? Just a suggestion....

45,000 'non-tutorial' videos would sure make the real tutorials hard to find
(maybe not 45,000 - but it's a dream).

If it does turn out that the petition does not work, we could beat exposure this way instead (lets hope).