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I too followed this forum's advice and purchased BoBo's book... and yes I'm finding it a little difficult - but I can't really tell what the book is all about because I refuse to read ahead before I can get all the sleights working comfortably. That said, I think it will be a LONG... LONG time before I can Downs Palm multiple coins...

One difficulty I am having is that I have a probelm in the knuckles of my right hand - they "lock" (and I am right-handed). I can perform most sleights more proficiently with my left hand (the left fingers have years of guitar-playing experience).

The initial post is interesting and I'm sure many of us have had the same thought process.

All I have done so far is buy the first volume of David Roth's 'Made Easy' DVD series (which I agree is excellent) and try the 'Winged Silver' routine out on my wife. I must say there was a real 'wow' factor for her in the quite magical movement of the coins, that is sometimes hard to achieve with cards and their generally less direct effects. There was also an enormous sense of satisfaction in pulling the routine off, greater than what I usually feel from card magic, much as I love it.

I do wonder if there is some truth in the comment in 'Absolute Magic' that 'in coin magic, the little devils move magically from here to there, and for a real thrill may suddenly become quite large'... but that's a whole other question.

[quote="Johnny Wizz"]
I think that what this ramble is about revolves around two questions. First, do I need coin magic? My own view is that if I cannot do anything with coins I can't call myself a real magician. Opinions on that one please. Second is there an easier way in to coin magic than Bobo?
quote]

First, maybe! - I think you do need coin magic to the extent you may find yourself in a situation where it is needed, eg. someone hands you a coin and asks you to do something with it.

Second, yes there are a myriad of effects with coins that require no sleights. There are mechanical props that can aid in the production of an effect. Arthritis will get in the way of serious finger flinging. But, you may be able to find a couple of gems that are easier on the fingers, yet still great with the spectators. Lapping effects, for example. "Hoo" coins and the like can be used to great effect. There are pulls that might work for you. There are coin/handkerchief effects that might be easy on the fingers. There are many mechanical methods and tools you can use to great effect. There are some great "china town" effects requiring no sleights.

I can't fully agree with the idea that there are certain sleights which must be in your arsenal. For example, a classic palm. Ramsay was known for some great coin effects - almost never used a classic palm. Slydini liked the thumb palm alot.

Roth is not the average performer, after all, he does primarily coin magic! So you would expect him to have a huge arsenal of moves, etc. That is the area of his expertise.

There are great mentalism effects with coins too. It doesn't have to be a vanish or manipulation!

You can be a great magician without coin tricks (I can name an extensive list). If you want to add a coin effect or two, you can find some that are kind to your fingers.

Best of luck!

I'm not a hardcore coin magician but recently i have dablled init and created a nice little routine.

there are some coin effects which do not require very hard sleights. the coin matrix with or without cards isn't to difficult and there are always things such as the raven and m5.

I love coin tricks, as once you've mastered a few they can be done completely impromptu. I agree with Johnny Wizz though, I couldn't get on with Bobo's book at all. I know it gets recommended a lot on here but personally I wouldn't recommend it to somebody starting out in coin magic. I found the descriptions ambiguous to start with and found it kept referring me back to previous drawings rather than repeating them, which made learning from this book frustrating and tiresome.

This is only my opinion, but to start with I'd recommend looking at something like Mark Wilson's complete course/ encyclopedia of magic, then possibly move on to Bobo when you're a little more accomplished, as there are some fantastic tricks in there.

Bobo's and Royal Road are really good, but so full of information. When first reading them, you can't really read it like a normal book. You read a couple of pages and then grab your deck or coin and get annoyed that you can't do it... After practice and practice and a bit more practice, it gets easier.

I also skipped several things in the book that I then found too difficult and then a few months later read them again and found it easier to do.

If you don't succeed, you always have the Raven or so

That's why I like Mark Wilson's book, the coin and card sections are a slight step below Bobo and Royal Road and make a brilliant base. Once you can master what's in that book, you'll be more than prepared for Bobo and Royal Road.

just thought id let you know one of the reasons i love coin magic is because unlike a deck of cards, most people have one in their pockets.

if you're having trouble with palming and sleights maybe you should consider a PK ring

remember though, you only need a few tricks to impress

much help

In regards to whether you need to learn magic, I have two different answers. If you're just into magic for the thrill of it, then I would say no. But if you want to impress people with your magicalness (magicalness? ) then I would say it would be a good idea to have a couple of coin routines under your belt.

I'm with the gang who say that coin magic is better because it's not something every man and his weird uncle who turns up at weddings can do, and that coins are more everyday and so can be performed at will (or on demand!)

I find that reading Bobo with a coin or two in your hand is a good idea, although some tricks seem either boring, confusing, or just old fashioned

J. Wizz wrote:First, do I need coin magic?

No more than you need card magic, rope magic or silk magic. Personally, I have a few card tricks that I do, but nowhere near what most magicians have in cards - I'm just not obsessed with them.

Same as with me and cards, you don't have to make coins a life's study nor do anything sleight heavy to do some entertaining (and good) coin magic. Look up "A Novel Vanish and Reproduction" in Bobo. Done with a bit of panache, that particular trick garners excellent responses from an audience and it's very easy to do (almost to the point of self working).

"Gadabout Coins" in Bobo is another reasonably easy effect to perform competently, with a bit of practice. Personally, I wouldn't use the full 5 phase routine that the book offers (and, in fact, I don't) but it is a good coin routine that is achievable even with arthritis.

All you need, if you really want to add some coin work to your repertoire, is a good FP, CP and TP. Even these three sleights are open to argument as to whether or not you really need them (but I would personally suggest that you become capable with all three). Out of any and all coin sleights, though, you will absolutely have to have a good FP and, if you choose your material carefully, that is all that you need (in combination with a Ramsay subtlety, it is a deadly weapon in magic). Fortunately, the FP is the easiest of the three sleights and arthritis shouldn't affect you on this one.

To drive home my point:

During a convention I sat just a few feet away from John Carney while he did a coin routine. He floored all the magicians watching. Then, after flooring them, he floored them again when he explained his masterful coin routine, which used only a FP (in conjunction with the Ramsay subtlety).

J. Wizz also wrote:Second is there an easier way in to coin magic than Bobo?

Many general magic books include coin magic. Books like "The Magic Book" (Lorayne), Bill Tarr's books, Wison's course et al, all contain some good coin magic in them. They give you the sleights that you need to accomplish the tricks that they cover. This would certainly be a good road to follow, if you don't want to delve into coin magic the way that serious card guys delve into cards.

There is no reason that you cannot learn a good routine or two out of these general books, fully side stepping Bobo. I would still suggest that you have a copy of Bobo on your book shelf, however, simply because of its encyclopedic nature. When putting routines together, or giving further thought and study to any given area of magic, a good selection of books comes in not only handy, but is a necessity.

Also, as you add to your colleciton of books, you'll find a little gem in there from time to time - something that will hit you just right that you can add to your coin work. In fact, I have one coin trick that floors magicians (I'm not a magician's magician by any stretch of the imagination). I gleaned this particular trick out of "The Little Giant Encyclopedia of Magic," (Longe) which I bought for a fiver. So, don't overlook simple, little books that you see on the shelves at the local book store - there is some good stuff to find!

Mr. Greaves wrote:When will people stop recommending Bobo for beginners, and stop calling it a Bible?

It is the bible of coin workers. Simple fact. It contains all the necessities to get you started and further takes you into some knuckle busting sleights whilst including a treatise on gaffed coins. It further gives a guide to routining with routines already worked out in the back of the book. It goes over how to get around dropping a coin and how to turn that mistake into a success - as if you'd intended doing that to begin with...Sleeving, cuffing, lapping, routining, it's all in there.

And, so much more. "Modern Coin Magic" is the bible of the coin worker and, if you are a hardened coin guy, you will have a copy of it on your shelf just as a hardened card guy will have "Royal Road." Rail against it if you like, Bobo gave us the compendium of coins.

Mr. Greaves further wrote:Curtis Kam (Magic Café) points out that at the time the MCM was published Vernon was already a living legend and was regularly lecturing to magicians, yet there is only one reference to Vernon in the MCM index.

Yea? So what? Mr. Kam obviously has no appreciation for historical facts. You've seen Vernon's cups and balls, you've seen his card work. Have you seen Vernon's coin routine? No, you haven't. Vernon did very little with coins, they simply were not his forte. So, why in the world would he be included in a coin book?

However, a friend of Vernon, Milt Kort (who was exceptional with coins) can be found listed in Bobo at least a dozen times. You'll also find reference to many of the coin men of the day. If you're going to publish a book on coins, you go to the coin men, not the card men. So, to suggest that Bobo isn't a worthy text because Vernon's name is not all over it is abjectly absurd.

Mr. Greaves further wrote:I bought tapes of David Roth on eBay (Easy to Master series) and I really felt I was starting to improve. I would recommend these to anyone.

This is good advice. Roth is an exceptional coin man and a good teacher. Along with the books suggested above, the series by Roth is an excellent tool (but not in lieu of Bobo and other books, rather as a supplement).

And, I have one more point to make:

When Roth put that series out, Tommy Wonder was already recognized as a living legend. How many times does Roth talk about Tommy Wonder? If I remember correctly, Roth doesn't allude to Wonder even one, single time. So, based on the Vernon/Bobo argument above, Roth's series is useless.

Give that some honest thought.

Mike.

azraelws6 wrote:I too followed this forum's advice and purchased BoBo's book... and yes I'm finding it a little difficult - but I can't really tell what the book is all about because I refuse to read ahead before I can get all the sleights working comfortably.

Why do you feel the need to be able to do each and every one of those sleights? You'll be studying that for the next 10 years before you even do a simple vanish and reproduction of a coin...

Let's say that you had to fix a hole in a wall. Would you pull every tool out of your toolbox? No, you'd remove the tools that you need to get the job done.

The sleights are the tools and the magic effects are the job. Learn to use the tools that you need for the job, rather than bogging yourself down trying to deal with each and every tool that you have - doing that, you'll never get the job done. It's just that the format of this book puts the sleights right in front of the book, rather than giving you the tricks first. So, the only reason that you aren't learning tricks is because that wasn't the first chapter...See where I'm coming from, here?

In other words, if tricks were the first chapter, then you'd be looking up the sleights, because you've decided that you are going to read, starting on page one, and not going anywhere else until you've mastered page one...But it is only a matter of format. And, what if the very first trick was nigh on impossible? Would you then spend the next 18 months mastering it, even though you didn't like it, because it was what was first?

Bobo is an encyclopedia. Use it as such. You'll find an excellent study guide for Bobo here. Of worthy note, the study guide suggests that you read the chapter on sleights without even attempting to do any of them...This is because you won't need the bulk of them and learning them becomes very much a waste of time (unless you actually enjoy learning these things as a personal challenge to yourself, obviously).

Mike.

Think of Bobo's as a car repair manual.

Some of it, you'll never use, some you will.

Unlike the RRTCM—which literally DEMANDS you read it cover-to-cover.

Thought I'd drag this interesting coin thread up from the vaults and ask how the contributors are getting on with their coin studies nowadays? Have you guys managed any major breakthroughs?

Also does anyone know a way of getting rid of skin discoloration caused by classic palming coins too much?

yes flashy, make up.

regards bobo for me iv'e diversed from sleights to a clone coin and gone from a copper / silv to a key set but then my circumstances are diferent from most.
when I was using bobo's full on I found I realy only used three sleights from the book for 90% of the tricks that I did on a regular bassis and though I still thumb through the pages of bobo's for interlectual reference its still a classic to keep on your shelf.