talkmagic.co.uk

I'm so glad things like that don't happen that often here in Europe. I can't imagine what the parents and friends of the victims are going through. May our thoughts go out to them.

I didn't know if everyone heard the update, escpecially those in Europe, so I thought I'd fill you in. The police have identified the shooter as a student from South Korea named Cho Seung Hui. Apparently this guy was also prescribed medication for depression and had set a dorm on fire earlier in the year. On an even sadder note, there was a professor there who was a Holocaust survivor. When his class heard the shots first ring out, this professor barricaded the door with his body allowing his students to jump out the window to safety. Sadly, he was killed.

DrTodd wrote:

Johnny Wizz wrote:I actually heard an interview on Radio 4 this morning with a talk radio presenter from the US. He was asked if this latest tragedy didn't make gun control more important and he argued the opposite. His view was that if more people carried guns around there would be more protection and less of this sort of thing would happen.

That seems a very warped logic to me and just trying to excuse the inexcusable.

I was on the BBC this morning arguing the other case...our second ammendment (right to bear arms) plus capitalism have created a remarkable result: 200 million guns, one for every adult!

The US has about 25,000 gun murders a year....I never understand the argument of more guns...after Columbine, Charlton Heston, President of the National Rifle Association said that we should ban trenchcoats, so the goths could not hide guns in them

Were you the person arguing that the second amendment doesn't really entitle everybody to bear arms and that it specifically empowers a national militia, the National Gaurd to be armed?

I would be very interested to hear more of that arguement. It is incomprehensible to most people in this country that firearms would ever be so readiily available and that no amount of these terrible incidents will alter American public opinion or political will

I really have never managed to understand the American gun issue, why do they need to own a gun? There's no need at all. I remember reading somewhere that half of american household own at least one gun. That's madness, just asking for trouble if you ask me.

The college shooting was terrible, I really feel for their friends and family. I just hope that this incident will make the americans look at their gun laws and bring them into the 21st century. But sadly we all know that's not going to happen.

Wasn't it Bill Hicks who said that in the US, where guns are legal, they have thousands of deaths from guns a year, but in the UK, where guns are illegal, the number of deaths from guns is far far lower. But according to the NRA, there's no link between having a gun and shooting someone, and not having a gun and not shooting someone. Studies have been done and you'd be a fool and a communist to disagree.

I do wish he wasn't dead. I really do.

What was it Orwell said: "During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act"? Hmmm...

ah...the mention of bill hicks always makes me sad...

him and peter cook...though cook was slightly less likeable in real life apparently...

I live next door to the United States and it has always been beyond my comprehension that you can buy guns there like they are bars of chocolates.
People often ask what differentiates Canadians from Americans because they both sound more or less the same. Well THAT is one of the main differences. Canadians find the US penchant for firearms to be ghastly and even outright lunacy. There is still some British influence here thank God.
And yet because of the proximity of the big monster to the south guns come in great quantities over the border smuggled in and it is a problem for Canada.
I remember someone on a magic forum complained to Peter Marucci (a Canadian) about all the marijuana coming in to the States from Canada. He countered by saying what about all the guns that come into Canada from the States?
That shut the complainer up.

yeah, given the choice of which i'd rather see smuggled in, well....

i suppose the lesson is, never trust dangerous items to people that keep voting in Bush...

My uncle was a canadian mountie infact...had his own hand built log cabin out in the woods too...canada sounds infinitely more interesting than most of the u.s.

I was talking to Dave last night about the guns and he told me that on an American cycling forum he's a member of, there was a 10 page thread about carrying guns when riding. What's that all about?

Lady of Mystery wrote:I was talking to Dave last night about the guns and he told me that on an American cycling forum he's a member of, there was a 10 page thread about carrying guns when riding. What's that all about?

shooting out each others tyres to take over during the tour du france might make it slightly more interesting...

i just think of homer simpson everytime i think of americans and guns...remember the episode where he goes round the house shooting the light switches to turn them off at night?

heh heh, that episode was quality!

as for the shootings, i'd better not post my feelings about it here as I'd probably get lynched. I guess it's my warped outlook on life these days. feel free to ask me on msn though

mark lewis wrote:I live next door to the United States and it has always been beyond my comprehension that you can buy guns there like they are bars of chocolates.

I don't know if many people in the UK know this, but it's not that easy to buy guns in America. Usually there are background checks and usually a one month waiting period. The reasons that so many bad people have guns is because of the black market in America. It's usually the gangs who get illegal guns and sell them to people. But there is something being done about this. In my state, the police set up a gun collection where anyone who turned in an illegal gun would get a check for $100 and there would be no arrest. I don't remember how many guns were collected, but I do remember that there were a lot.

I believe that someone else said here that there are two million privately owned guns in the U.S. which was one for every adult. I don't know if you are aware, but that list includes antique guns owned by collectors and the guns that police officers often buy to have with them in case they are off duty and run into a dangerous situation involving law breakers.

I myself am not a gun nut and wish there was stricter gun control in the country. However, I do believe that the right to bear arms was not removed from the U.S. This is the second amendment to the U.S. Constitution and removing it would surely cause huge upset in the country.

For those in the UK, I assume that there are murders in the country even though there are no guns. Suppose a person who was attacked in their home by someone trying to kill them. If they had a gun they might be able to defend themselves if they were otherwise unable to. I personally will never own a gun but I believe that people have the right to.

Actually I think that in the UK you should have the right to have arms. And dont start the redundent argument if all the law abiding people carry guns every one else will. Well they do already and knives I know of two stabbings round here that happend yesterday. Of course not every one can carry a gun like the leftys or the common you be just asking for trouble. If you are going get all upity about guns then you should about knive, stun guns, pepper spray and very big sticks

Some interesting points which I don't necessarily disagree with. However, when talking about crime in the UK, if you speak to a number of eminent criminologists then you will learn that when the police are armed, crimes against the public generally become more violent in order to evade detection and to enable the opportunity to fight back. If you look at robberies as an example, many occur in the UK with a inference to a weapon when there more often than not isn't a weapon actually being carried. Where there is a weapon, it is often no more than a knife (which is bad enough anyway).

It's a fact that in Europe in areas where police forces do carry guns, many more criminals also carry guns and are prepared to use them. It is also a fact that European criminals are now starting to use explosives in robberies as a step up so that they can get one over the police.

Now give the public guns and multiply this.........

Just a thought to demonstrate that crime isn't always as stright forward as it appears, nor are the solutions. Had this yongster in America not has access to a gun then perhaps, and it is perhaps he would have become a serial killer and picked off victims one at a time. With crimes such as this you need to remember the killer is in the person and not in the weapon.

Those who murdered dozens on the underground didn't need a gun which shows that where there is a will, then there may always be a way.

Dont quote Bill Hicks Tomo he is so over rated.....

monker59 wrote:Suppose a person who was attacked in their home by someone trying to kill them. If they had a gun they might be able to defend themselves if they were otherwise unable to. I personally will never own a gun but I believe that people have the right to.

This is the fundamental American belief, which the rest of us (I for one) cannot get a grasp on. How many more times does a harmful [fatal] accident occur with a gun in the house versus how many times do people try to break into one's home to kill them? I'm not saying that it never happens..... but....

We Canadians believe that no guns is the best solution.... if no one has a gun in the home, then thieves will not carry guns while trying to rob your home, and if you're there to stop them, it usually won't end up in a firefight, where someone will surely die. Say what you will about the "background checks" and the "security" in place, but this guy in the Virginia Tech shooting walked into the local gun store and bought his weapons. THe store owner said he looked like a "nice, clean, kid".

There was no black market at play there.....

You can also buy firearms and ammunition at the local mall - at Walmart of all places. It's just not like that in Canada. Unfortunately for us, fatal shootings still occur (and just last year we had a similar incident to the Virginia Tech incident - but fortunately the gunman was taken down by police almost immediately) - however here it is 100% the black market. You cannot buy guns at the local store. As a matter of fact - I have no idea even WHERE or HOW to buy a gun if I wanted to.