talkmagic.co.uk

In the history of magic, there are a few names that come to mind who have moved outside the performance zone to occupy the position of 'public intellectual' or one who is elevated to the status of leader and expert witness of some kind who takes on a signficant public debate.

The mage, sage, and philosopher has always held some position of public authority, which has varied with the advance of time and ideas. In Making Magic Styers argues that religion needed magic as a foil and often relegated it to 'traditional' or 'uncivilised', while the advance of modernity created an opposition between science and religion where magic was further relegated as unscientific and even barbaric.

In our current age, magicians have often aligned themselves with science and have engaged in scepticism about all things 'psi', and have assumed a position of public intellectual.

I am curious who you would put in a list of magical public intellectuals. My list includes:

Houdini
Randi
Derren Brown
David Blaine
Uri Geller(?)

Penn and Teller have to be in the list.

Beyond that, there's a number who have done some great stuff in the same area, but probably haven't 'assumed a position of public intellectual'.

I don't think I'd put David Blaine in that list though. Certainly not Geller!

edd wrote:Penn and Teller have to be in the list.

Beyond that, there's a number who have done some great stuff in the same area, but probably haven't 'assumed a position of public intellectual'.

I don't think I'd put David Blaine in that list though. Certainly not Geller!

I wondered about Blaine and Geller, for some they occupy a position of leader.

More please!

DrTodd wrote:More please!

Are you just waiting for someone to say you aren't you?!?!?!
I think Derren has to be top, but Randi is a good second.

Here certainly Brown is better known than Randi I think. I'd imagine in the States the position is reversed.

Randi is also much better at convincing people he isn't psychic. Derren is probably getting rather frustrated by the number of people convinced he's doing it all for real!

Add to the list:
The Great Soprendo
Ali Bongo
Paul Daniels
Tommy Cooper

Sal Piacente

i have been reading up on him and he has been hired by many top casinos to give the casinos staff advice and knowledge on cheats etc. i believe he has worked with the FBI as well.

he is the man responsible for the Street Monte DVDs.

Lord Freddie wrote:Add to the list:
The Great Soprendo
Ali Bongo
Paul Daniels
Tommy Cooper

Could explain your choices a bit Lord Freddie?

Cheers,


Todd

DrTodd wrote:

Lord Freddie wrote:Add to the list:
The Great Soprendo
Ali Bongo
Paul Daniels
Tommy Cooper

Could explain your choices a bit Lord Freddie?

Cheers,


Todd

Intellectuals tend to have an eccentric dress sense.

hmmm...maybe lennart green, as he does alot of work with casinos, and is hired as an expert in cheating...

probably ian rowland would be my number one suggestion though..

and possibly jerry sadowitz with his philosphical thoughts on women...

DrTodd wrote:In our current age, magicians have often aligned themselves with science and have engaged in scepticism about all things 'psi', and have assumed a position of public intellectual.

I think a good example of an exponent of that would be Derren Brown.

The one name mentioned in all the above which I'd immediately consider to be intellectual would be Derren Brown. All the others are excellent magicians and entertainers and they probably are extremely brainy but their personas aren't in accord with my idea of intellectual.

Geller has the reputation of being a weirdo fraud, Blaine is now a stunt man, Tommy Cooper was a comedian more than anything, Paul Daniels is the gaffer but mainly as an entertainer, Houdini a sharp operator and opportunist, Randi comes close but there are side issues with him which make me wonder how genuine he is, Soprendo was a comic persona whereas Geoffrey Durham is certainly a brainy bloke, Ali Bongo comes very close to being intellectual as he's a kind and gentle man who has developed so much in magic, Penn is brash, loud and in yer face, Teller might be close to being considered intellectual - skilled, quiet, talented etc.

I guess it all depends on your definition of intellectual!

its strange, i wouldnt of said derren, i see him as a charming and eloquent little devil..but not necessarily a public smartie-pants...probably cos he's a performer, rather than a showbiz "expert"...

Mandrake wrote: Randi comes close but there are side issues with him which make me wonder how genuine he is

Could you expand on that?

Anyway, other names that have sprung to mind: Philip Escoffey and Banachek are both people I've come across from the 'intellectual' side before the magic side.

edd wrote:Could you expand on that?

Difficult to be specific and we've had a few discussions on this in the past (all locked eventually for various reasons!) but my gut feeling (and it's a large gut!) is that he's not quite as he seems, a bit too lofty and superior. Dunno why. There are lots of rumours and stories on line which may or may not be true but, in the context of this thread, he doesn't get onto my list of intellectual. To me that's someone who is wonderfully cerebral and capable of great thoughts etc in addition to anything else they may or may not do. DB mucks about with minds but in a cerebral way, all the others mentioned so far are, IMHO, entertainers of varying degrees from OK to utterly superb.