talkmagic.co.uk

Although there are undoubtably many people that will start with E's dvd and progress into other areas of magic, the main audience seems to be the kids that want to show off to their chums and make youtoob exposure videos.
If you look at the posts on here created by Ellusionist fans they tend to be illiterate "how do you do this wikkid trick?" and "what gaff deck should I buy doods?" type of posts which says a lot about the monsters they are spawning.

Mark I'd mostly agree with you if he weren't doing it on the back of the efforts of others. He sells other people's material without permission and often without even acknowledgement. If you've ever created anything your best bet is to get Ellusionist to market it for you (!), because if you don't you'll probably see Brad teaching it on a DVD next year with no mention of your name (not to mention royalties).

I have never bought from them, the only thing I have bearing their name is some of the decks of Bikes they have produced.
Looking at the website, there has been nothing that has grabbed my attention and the delivery and music on the trailers make it clear that their DVD's are clearly aimed at the 'be a magician overnight' yoof market, of which I am not part.

Good old books crammed with hundreds of good effects and ideas is what I prefer. These DVD's are aimed at the generation of Playstation addicts who have never read a book in their lives.

Brad is a member of this site and he may feel energised enough to comment. I confess I know very little about Ellusionist except that they sell my book and actually at a perfectly reasonable price. In fact cheaper than me but since they don't include postage costs like I do it works out to the same anyway.

I do remember Brad from the old days and none of the complaints here fit it with the Brad I knew. Perhaps I am living in the past but none of it makes any sense at all. It just doesn't sound like the Brad I knew who was trained in the Arcade Magic Shop in Toronto where ethics in magic were actually taken to what people might see as extreme lengths.

If Brad had gotten any more "ethical" he would have been made into a church leader. Perhaps he has changed. I don't know. None of this sounds like him at all.

Hmmm. I could swear I've seen at least one interesting debate on Ellusionist in this forum the last couple of months. He actually replied some of the thoughts presented here.

Lord Freddie wrote:These DVD's are aimed at the generation of Playstation addicts who have never read a book in their lives.

That's not fair.... I consider myself to be [quite] literate, and I have purchased things from Ellusionist, and I'm also a professional accountant and married man with a house and a mortgage and all the reponsibilities that go along with it (...and yes there are way too many "and's" in that sentence). So I am clearly not the "target market" as you describe, however it is unfair and untrue to say everything they sell other than custom playing cards is not good or geared toward overnight magicians. Some effects are good, some are terrible, ALL are overpriced... and that just about sums it up. Where does the feeling that a "real" magician cannot do a quarter in soda can effect, or make a named card appear on their arm, etc come from? These effects marketed by Ellusionist are some of the better ones, and they're just all ruined because every idiotic kid is uploading badly done videos or even videos of themselves actually teaching the effect (because they want to be the next Brad Christian). It's not really his fault is it?

Furthermore, Ellusionist stocks (in addition to their own branded material which is guilty of the lack of acknowledgement and credit of original creators, etc, etc, etc) hundreds of other DVD's and books and instructional material that is recommended by members of this forum on a daily basis. So they ARE a complete and comprehensive magic supplier that surely has material for all kinds of tastes and styles. Just because they also have a home-grown line of their own DVD's which (as has been said countless times is over-hyped and over-priced) which many may dislike, they carry all the other products too! (and obviously they will promote their "house brand" products the most because they are the most profitable sales for them.... they are not buying those and re-selling them at a profit like they are doing with everybody else's products. Their products are all profit).

I admit there is a big market comprised of less-than-stellar performers who are looking for the latest "cool" trick to impress their friends at school and nothing more, but then, I fail to see the bad in giving the public what it wants. THese kids eat the stuff up, so why not provide it? It isn't drugs, or alcohol, or anything "bad"...

..and one more thing, it isn't Brad who created this genre of "performer"... it's David Blaine and Criss Angel, etc. So when kids see these guys on TV and want to be like them, why is that any different than seeing David Beckham and wanting to be a football star? Again, my point is that Ellusionist is a retailer offering all kinds of products, like many other online retailers. Some is brilliant, some is rubbish. There's something for everybody. Even some of the effects that are branded towards the generation of kids being referred to can also be great in the hands of a seasoned and serious performer. Also, their service is great. Unfortunately unless you live in California the shipping's going to ruin you.

It'd be great, actually, if Brad would consider responding to this thread.

If nothing else, I'd love to see some comments from him on the way he views the marketing of his business, and a little bit of 'back-story', on how he built 'E' into what it is today - I'm pretty certain it'd make fascinating reading (has Brad ever had any articles published on this aspect of his business?)

In actuality, I'd quite happily pay for a DVD/book by Brad, on how to build such a succesful sales-machine...and I say that in all seriousness; other points aside, Brad saw a huge gap in the Magic market, exploited it flawlessly (I'm sure he'd disagree with me here ), and he has my utmost respect for accomplishing what he has

Wasn't originally intending to spark off an Ellusionist debate, however on the topic of E stuff being over priced, a lot of stuff I see on UK websites that have come from Ellusionist are priced at an even higher pricee and it nearly always ends up being cheaper to get things shipped over here via the Ellusionist site. Saying that however I haven't been doing magic for long so I don't really know a bargain from a scam.