talkmagic.co.uk

Hey everyone, sorry I've been AWOL for a while, I've had a lot of stuff going on lately. Also sorry for my first post in months being a question, but here you go...

A local camp manager that I am working for this summer found out that I do magic and has asked me to teach magic as one of the courses at the camp. Ethically I knew this meant that I would have to charge per kid and use a portion of that money to purchase Mark Wilson's for each one of them so I could teach from the book. I just got off the phone with him and he said that because I was not incorporated into the price of the camp this year, that I would have to have a per-hour rate for the 4 weeks of camp this year. The only problem is, I would then not be able to purchase Mark Wilson's and therefore not be able to teach from it.

The only thing I can think of doing I need to know, (majority wins in the poll) is whether or not the below plan is ethical.

I am planning on going around to some of the people I know and ask them to show me every effect that they know and compile a list of the effects that they showed me and teach from that list. The only reason I find this remotely ethical is because those effects are publicly available because they can be taught by my acquaintances to other people. Before submitting your opinion into the poll, please think about it twice or even 3 times as my mind has been going back and forth on this and I'm sure yours will too.

Thank you for your time and I hope to see some familiar "faces" on here soon,

~Magically Dave

Edit:

I also feel that the following should be mentioned:

The majority of the kids will be 7 years or younger so they will not remember generally anything that is taught to them in 2 weeks. Also the classes will be 30 minutes long and therefore not a lot can be taught in that amount of time anyway.

Thank you once again,
~Magically Dave

Personally, I don't think they need to buy a copy of anything. What's wrong with teaching little children a bit of magic, if they are interested? It's not like Mark Wilson invented all the stuff in his book.

David
I feel you can have a lot of fun with such classes. Indeed, not a lot of tricks can be taught, considering the limited time and the young age of the children.
I think I would made a selection of very easy tricks of the kind one finds in magic kits and magic books for children (rope, ball and vase, disappearing coin under glass, ...). Perhaps more suggestions of tricks will appear in this thread. I also would try to make this a fun experience for the kids: if the classes can end with a performance, they will have an extra reason to like the classes.
Here is an idea for organising the classes:
1st lesson : give a magical performance for the class and then promise them to teach them all the tricks you showed them;
next lessons : one trick a day will be sufficient;
in between : a class in which the learned tricks are repeated and rehearsed;
last lesson : all tricks are rehearsed for a real performance;
at any available moment : the children who wish (and you) give a (short) magic show for a larger group.

Well, just some thoughts.

Regards
Peter

You're hardly teaching them the advanced secrets of the professionals and
books like Mark Wilson's one are available in normal bookshops anyway if they want to pursue it.

Go for it. When I perform for kids and they ask me to teach them a 'trick' I usually carry some rubber bands with me and teach them the Jumping Band effect and the other one is the Linking Paper Clips.
They seem to be happy with these as they are easy to do and the kids have some success with it and can't wait to show it to their parents.

I pretty much agree. Make them recite the magician's oath, explain that if they tell people how to do what you teach it'll mean they can't show people, teach them a couple of easy but cool tricks, and give them a reading list to add to their Christmas/birthday list.

It might be worth illustrating the reason we don't give secrets away by telling doing a trick, getting a good reaction then telling them how a trick is done before performing it and see how dead the reaction is. Or something. Thus proving that secrets are far less interesting than magic.

I've done a few lessons like these for children, and they've gone incredibly well. I don't classify it as exposure because, like others have said - I go over the magician's code, and explain why we shouldn't give out our secrets.

Yes, I always explain that if they can keep it secret then they can learn
more, if they tell people then they lose the 'magic' so to speak.
I always like to teach them a simple trick, one that they can grasp and also one that's not a major effect. The rubber band one is perfect for this and I have never seen kids so pleased after being given a rubber band to keep!
The ones whose curiosity is sated and want to learn more will explore further and get themselves some books, cards etc. The others who are not so bothered will know one 'trick' and the world of magic will not have been opened up wide for all to see.

Some will love it and some will just not want to be there. Prepare to be used as a creche facility but other than this, go for it.

Check out that the camp is covering the insurance etc. and DON'T work unsuervised with children of this age. Insist that there is at least one other member of staff from the camp there with you at ALL TIMES!

dat8962 very, very, very good advice. If they want you to work unsupervised. walk away. They will (should) know better.

Other than that, instead of mark wilsons book, which I think would be lost on most of them, How about going to tesco's and getting a few cheap marvin sets. You will get duplicates of the props plus a few self workers which are great for kids.

A freind of mines kid had a marvin set for xmas and I sat with him for three hours straight. He was a saint. He did a show with six tricks at the end including prof nighmare. Without the few self workers that seem very simple to us adults (we can work them out as he did them) this would not have happened.

He was very inteligent and he was 8, your working with younger. Do not expect too much from them.

Thanks for all of the advice so far! I did not think of a lot of the things mentioned here and will make sure to ask about having someone to supervise around at all times to take care of the "problem kids". So far the manager is leaning towards a yes and is considering my per-hour rate for this year (which slightly angers me as I'm only asking for $20 USD per hour compared to what I would have been charging if I was paid per student) so I don't know 100% yet if I will be hired or not. When everything is "set in stone" I'll let you know and post a list of effects that I might teach.

Thanks again for all the wonderful advice so far!
~Magically Dave

and will make sure to ask about having someone to supervise around at all times to take care of the "problem kids

It's not so much about problem kids, it's about anyone accusing YOU of inappropriate behaviour.

dat8962 wrote:

and will make sure to ask about having someone to supervise around at all times to take care of the "problem kids

It's not so much about problem kids, it's about anyone accusing YOU of inappropriate behaviour.

Wow, that never even crossed my mind. Thank you are the only words that come to my mind right now because you've just saved my a**. I don't know if it would've happened this year or not, but I'm guessing it might happen some day if a kid for whatever reason finds me evil and does everything he/she can to mess up my reputation and class. I will make sure to always make sure someone else is around whenever I work with kids.

Thanks!
~Magically Dave

When I was teaching, I engineered never to have a lone teenage girl in the room with me at any time. It was just not worth it, in case one turned out to be a psycho.

Marvell wrote:When I was teaching, I engineered never to have a lone teenage girl in the room with me at any time. It was just not worth it, in case one turned out to be a psycho.

Yes, just look what happened to Gary Glitter!