talkmagic.co.uk

Cardza wrote:Along similar lines, if this gets your blood boiling don't put into google "Ellusionist Phenomenon".

After answering the question they proposed ("What is a Mentalist?") there follows this:

ellusionist.com wrote:Get Training From Ellusionist.com

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Sigh...

Geez. "Powerful BS at your disposal." Monkey trainers.

Makes me happy that my performance is more and more reading heavy. Hey, perhaps soon there'll be a "Psychic Star" type programme. Or has there been one already???

themagicwand wrote:Makes me happy that my performance is more and more reading heavy. Hey, perhaps soon there'll be a "Psychic Star" type programme. Or has there been one already???

If there has been, it isn't massively popular here in the States. Honestly, I would dread one.

themagicwand wrote:Makes me happy that my performance is more and more reading heavy. Hey, perhaps soon there'll be a "Psychic Star" type programme. Or has there been one already???

Indeed there has. It was Britain's Psychic Challenge.

Criss Angel is the lowest common denominator in magic. Maybe someone should produce a show explaining how his does his tawdry special effects which he masquerades as 'magic'.
The look of him and his own persona appeals to the youtube generation of middle american kids who want to be seen to be a bit dark and 'wacky' to upset their middle-class, probably christian parents.

To$$pot.

Tomo wrote:

themagicwand wrote:Makes me happy that my performance is more and more reading heavy. Hey, perhaps soon there'll be a "Psychic Star" type programme. Or has there been one already???

Indeed there has. It was Britain's Psychic Challenge.

themagicwand wrote:

Michael Jay wrote:

Seige wrote:... but quite frankly it's disgusting that two professionals who earned their standing and bread and butter are choosing to bite the hand that has fed them.

Angel was already doing this on his "Mindfreaky" series. The best that I could tell, being a mindfreaky kind of guy wasn't quite enough to get the viewers to tune in, so he started telling how tricks were done in his program. Of course, he left out how edits and stooges work, but, what the hell, eh?

And, of course, this didn't bother the mentalists. They probably just sat back and lamented about what a bunch of losers magicians are (which Browning is so happy to point out to us what a bunch of losers we are at every turn - and we still love him for it).

But, now, Angel is stepping on the mentalist's toes. In a way, I'm not terribly surprised. Eventually, the tides had to shift into their direction, I believe. What I'm interested to see, however, is if this will help to bring the mentalists together with the magicians (the enemy of my enemy is my friend, and all that).

If Browning's perspective is representative of the general attitude of the mentalist crowd, though, I doubt very much that this will happen (we magicians being losers and all). And, we shall remain a house divided.

Mike.

Why are you deliberately trying to create a problem Michael, bored?

Like most that do magic tricks and dabble in Mentalism you have assumed a great deal vs. those that cut ties with magic tricks in order to become real COMMITTED performers of old style PSYCHIC ENTERTAINMENT and it's cousin that's become known as Bizarre Magick... I've written extensively on both and tried to explain what the tensions are between each of these fields; a point of view supported by PROFESSIONALS in the Mentalism side of things who were involved with it long before the trend started about a decade back thanks to Oh! Criss Angel and David Blaine and of course Derren Brown in the UK... the three 21st century triggers for the New Age of Mentalism... at least, that's what most call it.

Like so many hobbyist you want to do both; you want your cake and eat it too e.g. you don't give a damn about specializing in one key area and leaving the rest alone or how that lends to the performer some exceptional advantages that he or she will never be able to generate when trying to serve two or three "masters" just because each is "related".

I'm not going to argue with you Michael... I'm tired of your games and duplicity, your school yard antics have proven to the world the kind of person you really are, I'm leaving it at that. But I will ASK you to stop trying to put words into my mouth or worse yet, twist things I've stated so as to paint your portrait a certain way. After all, most of what I've expressed isn't my philosophy alone, it is part of the tradition and practice of old School mentalism/MYSTERY ENTERTAINMENT and what I was taught moving up through the ranks over the years and learning my craft. There are perspectives voiced 25 or so years ago by Max Maven and before him by Stephen Minch and before that by numerous others generation after generations. "My Words" that you are trying so poorly to use against me, aren't my words but those of Kenton Knepper, Richard Webster, Ron Martin and many other contemporaries that this New Age Mentalism movement loves to ignore and set to the side due to the fact that what they say don't "fit" the more cynical "it's just a trick" attitude now promoted as the rule... what we end up with is a lot of what we saw on National Tv last night -- c*** (not the best)! With much more to come... but then, I'm seeing two important trends that also sustain those words I've quoted and borrowed from my elders; the fact that most are now running away from Mentalism and back to the safety of their card decks and sponge balls; and too, those remaining behind are getting more curious and serious about the more mysterious side of how mentalism used to be worked and how the "game" is played when you work from the angle of the old timer.

I feel sorry for you Michael, I really do.

In my opinion, the show was just bad. The performances were dull and uninspiring, but perhaps things will pick up.

I don't want to trample on toes here, but I wasn't as annoyed with Criss Angel mentioning PK Touches - yes, it's a bit too much info, but I don't feel much damage will come from it.

As for name-dropping. I'm sorry, Craig - but I can't help but feel this is a little bit of the pot calling the kettle black. I'm not trying to be confrontational, but you name-drop quite a bit in your posts, and it's all in an effort to cement your reputation as one of the old-schoolers. Why is it not ok for Criss to mention his relationship with Banacheck (something which is pretty well documented, even for laymen - since Banacheck is on every episode of Mindfreak), but it's fine for you to mention your relationship with other professionals?

In this instance, I saw it as more of a warning for the performer to be more original in his presentations. Perhaps it could be seen the way you saw it, Craig - but I'll be quite a few people might think the same thing when they see you drop names.

As far as his looking bored - they both looked bored. Why? Because the performances weren't all that great. Aside from the PK Touches routine in question (which I felt was the best performance of the night), not many of the acts made sense. After the lumberjack guy, I wouldn't have been to interested if I was a judge, either.

I'm sure you know Gerry McCambridge, Craig. If so, can you tell me that his performance was his "best"? If that is indicative of his Vegas show, then I wouldn't be running for the ticket office. Truth be told, the lack of enthusiasm has just as much to do with the show itself, as any airs you feel he was putting on.

I am going to reserve judgment, and see how the season plays out a bit more. Hopefully it will get better. I found the biggest detractor was Uri, not Criss.

I would do this by PM, but since you don't even open my PMs to you, I have little choice in the matter.

Browning wrote:Like so many hobbyist you want to do both; you want your cake and eat it too e.g. you don't give a damn about specializing in one key area and leaving the rest alone or how that lends to the performer some exceptional advantages that he or she will never be able to generate when trying to serve two or three "masters" just because each is "related".

You don't know the first thing about me Browning. You have your preconceived notions based on the fact that one of my jobs is delivering pizzas, but, aside from that, you don't know the first thing about me. The above statement is proof.

I am not a hobbyist, I am a semi-pro. My knowledge of magic is at least equal to your knowledge of mentalism. I don't do mentalism, so please quit telling me what I do and what I don't do. I do, however, study mentalism. I gave it a try, I didn't like it, so I don't do it - but I do study it. Simple as.

But I will ASK you to stop trying to put words into my mouth or worse yet, twist things I've stated so as to paint your portrait a certain way.

Put words in your mouth? As you've said yourself, time and time again, your life is an open book on the internet. That is one of the few bits of truth that you speak (and I don't mean regurgitated facts about mentalism that anyone who can read and has an ounce of intelligence can do, I mean the facts of your so called life). Ironically, that "open book" fact alone is all that anyone needs to prove most any argument against you and further prove that much of what you claim as fact is really a lie.

Since you feel that I'm putting words in your mouth, then here are two quotes, directly from YOU, proving my case:

If you do a card trick and screw it up the worst that can happen is that you look an idiot. Most magicians look like idiots anyway so this shouldn't be a new experience.

More recently:

CASE IN POINT: I often use the term "Magician" as a negative.

Straight from YOU Browning...Not from me. You OFTEN use the term magician as a NEGATIVE. So, exactly, how am I misrepresenting you? By your own words Browning, I am NOT.

Or, do you mean to say that by using the term "magician" as a negative, you don't intend to call them losers? Hmm...

I feel sorry for you Michael, I really do.

Thank you - I can always use the sympathy.

Mike.

As this seems to have turned into another Mike Jay vs Craig Browning thread - I think it best be locked...