talkmagic.co.uk

I guess this is an open discussion but I don't want any hateful comments directed towards this question I just want answers without bickering. I had to say that as a disclaimer although I'm sure there may be some argument.











Why is penguin magic disliked?

If there was already a thread about this than...

I'm not implying or inferring anything just take the question for what it is, a question.

Oh, Thanks for any responses!

Penguin and Ellusionist (to a lesser degree) are seen as the retailers for "kids" and at that, they have an ugly habit of going on "the cheap".

They are not high the list when it comes to being a "reputable" dealer and unlike most real penguins, they refuse to take fish in trade for merchandise

How did I know you would be the first to reply. Is this feeling mutual among the fourm? Or does anyone else have an opinion they'd like to share.

Im afraid its true young Ian...............................they do refuse to take fish in trade for merchandise!

I agree with virtually everything Craig said...but I do not "hate" them. I have a few items from them, and providing you are selective about what you get, they aren't thaaaaaat bad.

I've always thought that it's a bit of snobbery, they're not seen as a 'proper' magicians shop. Alot of their stuff is over priced or just rip offs of effects that have been around for donkey's years and can be found in lots of basic books which doens't help their case.

All those YouTube vids of hyperactive kids opening their latest purchases from those stores doesn't help their image - although I guess that's not too important as long as those kids (or parents!) are footing the bill. I've bought items from both places and have been pleased with the service and quality although the changing exchange rates makes buying from the US less economic at the moment. There were some issues with negative, or just plain unflattering, reviews of products on their forums being censored or deleted but I haven't heard anything along those lines for a while. While Oz Pearlman was Penguin's Chief Demo guy there was a lot of credibility attached to the store but that seems to be declining and the sudden and unannounced closure of Penguin Europe did them no favours either. Ellusionist have a reputation of taking old stuff, often public domain ideas, and re-launching them as the next 'must-have' at very inflated prices. Whilst you can't blame anyone for trying to maximise sales and profits, a bit of background reading by the enthusiastic purchasers might show that the same thing can be made at home on the kitchen table for a very low cost. Both firms seem to have good financial footings and they trade regularly so it's all down to whether folks are happy to buy from them.

Fair enough... Alright thanks for the replies everyone.

a well known web forum

We mentioned it here at the time - 'twas to do with our good friends over at the MagicBunny but I didn't hear if they ever sorted it out or not.

I don't mind Penguin. You just gotta know what to get.

Oz Pearlman taught me a helluva lot when i started out and i always know that if i watch a vid of his, it'll be great, fun magic.

They're like anywhere I think, there's some good and there's some bad. I've bought off them before and found the company to be professional enough.

I think both Ellusionist and Penguin are run like a business. Before you say ' Well yeah..........make your point ', my point is thus;

When i purchase a magic book, or to be more precise a book on magic, i feel privvy to certain information unobtainable to others. Maybe you guys on here and some folk in the Magic Cafe pardon my French have the same book and are learning from it, maybe not.

The point friends, is that if i were to order from Ellusionist or Penguin and to a lesser degree Theory 11, i'd feel like some kind of sheep. It would feel like i was reading a book that had featured on Richard and Judy's book club, something any old Thomas, Richard or Harold could pick up if they so desired.

I appreciate that Ellusoinist and Penguin need to make money, but there of course has to be a clandestine element to magic, and spreading themselves all over VH1 advertising their wares is not the best way to go about things. I'd go to Alakazam or Magic Box or anyone like that, in the knowledge that though some may have the trick or tome, the iflourishers and itricksters won't. It's about taking the path less travelled.

I think I would have to disagree. The only way I'd agree is in a selfish sense. As much as I'd like to have magic all to myself, if someone else wants to get in on it let them. I don't know why people hate Penguin. I have had problems with ellusionist in the past, and lately have seen problems with them being deceiving, repacking old as new and over pricing items but not so with Penguin. Penguin has the best prices online and for a student that is great. It is by far cheaper than alakazam, murphy's or anything like that, and they give free shipping.

As much as it may be borderline mainstream, you can't hate on them for being popular. I wouldn't likely have been able to get so involved with magic if not for Penguin and the like.

Back in the day I made a few purchases from Penguin and back then I had no issues whatsoever and I did like the being given a code to access a forum with discussions on the effect you'd bought.

But then one day it seemed they just went all stupid and no better than some high street discount clothing chain in that they stopped being so selective about their tricks, just bought em in and piled em high and customer service started to get a bit shoddy.

Then Jay Sankey had a big falling out with them and it was discussed widely both here and on other forums. The verifiable facts that came out moved me well away from Penguin and any cursory visits back to the site seem to show that not much has been learnt or changed.

If you are new to magic then Penguin and Ellusionist are good places to start for simple packet tricks and media such as dvd's but once you start getting serious about the artform there are better qualified, more caring and more supportive sites to buy your "unique" magic from [unique as in not that many will have it compared to those who buy from P]

Many do shop without incident but I personally would rather go to a well established smaller outfit with great assistance rather than simple sales patter when you call them. Conversations with Alakazam and Andrew at Magic World for instance have prevented me from CUPS induced purchases of effects I didn't really need whereas Penguin would have been sales reps.

At least Penguin has Oz Pearlman to lend it some credibility. What does Ellusionist have? Justin Miller and Brad Christian??!! A guy in a bad Matrix costume and a gothed-up, middle aged Teddy Ruxpin