talkmagic.co.uk

...the method often disappoints?

Some effects are powerful and even have pro's fooled for a second but then you get them and you think... "Is that it? How am I supposed to get away with that?"

Strange how the old adage rings true in our art... simplicity is key!!





Examples... Ammars card on ceiling (doesn't even come with cards lol)
Torch to Rose

Just to confirm, even though the method disappoints it does not detract from the specs view and the effects remain powerful!!

The method will always 'dissapoint' if you compare it to the effect the spectator witnesses. You need to look at methods through different eyes to appreciate them.

While that's generaly the case, you will sometimes come across effects that you think are better than they actually are.

You will also find effects where you will think that the method is pure genious.

It's all swings and roundabouts but to answer the original question, I remember the time that I learnt the secret of performing the chop cup and I thought the same - that won't work.

Then you perform it for the first time and bang - you're stunned that you not only performed it, but that the misdirection actually works

funny you should mention the chop cup... got one coming as a chrimbo pressie!!

You'll love it Jordan - it's definately one of my personal favorites to perform for an audience of any age.

You can't be a magician without a chop cup!

Jordan C wrote:...the method often disappoints?

I think that the level of disappointment depends on a number of factors:

If the advertisement was misleading (either through carefully chosen words or skillful video editing), disappointment is almost guaranteed to follow.

If the recipient of the knowledge is disappointed that s/he was fooled by something "so simple", or even worse, something that s/he already knew/owned.

If the recipient of the knowledge determines that the "secret" does not fit within his/her character/ability/preferred method of performance.

If the recipient of the knowledge was only looking for some new amazing technique/gimmick so they can feel that they can feel either that they are "smarter" than their fellow magi who are not "in the know".

Jordan C and MasterClyde are (IMO) correct, that in most cases (my words not theirs), the effect on the audience is paramount. Some of us place certain restrictions on which methods they can/cannot use, but to quote Jordan C "simplicity is key".

Jordan C wrote:Why is it that the method often disappoints?

In my opinion I think you you answer your own question when you add:

Jordan C wrote:Is that it? How am I supposed to get away with that?

At least that's how it's always been whenever I've been disappointed by a method. I felt exactly like that when I bought Factory Sealed. The fact that the description on the website was totally misleading was annoying enough (is it bo**ocks factory sealed for a start!), but when you know the method you have to be annoyed because it means it's absolutely appalling for angles. You can only really perform it for a small group of people who are stood directly infront of you.

I'm all for more honesty when it comes to pre-purchase descriptions. It's obviously a fine line because too much frankness and you'll give away the method without need for anyone to buy the effect, but I think there's room for a little more honsety in the case of most marketed effects.

Crystal Method springs to mind as a perfect example - marketed as though it was The Second Coming of card magic, when really it was just a concept that is decades old dressed up in some fancy new trousers and is cripplingly limited in how it can be used in the real world.

I think part of it is the annoyance at the fact that you've paid money for something that you probably could've thought up on your own. Whether or not you *would've* thought it up on your own is another matter entirely of course...

I often think that the best magic tricks come in two varieties: Those where the method is so complex that the audience is certain you would never have gone to such efforts just to entertain them, and those where the method is so simple the audience thinks it couldn't possibly be that simple.

Part of it may also be that laypeople, whilst not knowing anything about magic, work on the assumption that it's all probably very complicated, involving intricate sleight of hand and misdirection and the such. They seem to forget that we also, y'know, make stuff up...

queen of clubs wrote:I'm all for more honesty when it comes to pre-purchase descriptions. It's obviously a fine line because too much frankness and you'll give away the method without need for anyone to buy the effect, but I think there's room for a little more honsety in the case of most marketed effects.

Couldn't agree more. My favourite line is ' YOU DONT TOUCH THE DECK THE ENTIRE TIME!!!! '.

You do touch the deck, and you touch it many times doing many, many things.

Are you asking if, when the spectator finds the method the effect is disapointing, or the magician. I'm not sure there is much of a difference.

I think hobbiests or part time pro's get more disapointed then anyone. And I'm not being insulting here, and I am talking in general terms. The reasoning is that they are looking for that one effect that is going to put them over the top. That one effect that is so magical it IS magic. Usually they already own the effect and just don't know it, (because each effect will do that if you put in the time and effort that it requires of you). and rather then put the time or effort into understanding it and being the best at performing it they are too busy grumping about how much the method sucks, (okay that last part is a bit nasty) but it is always far easier to blame the method then it is to do the work.

And yes the industry should be more honest. But please take a little responsibilty. The self working effect is obviously not self working you have to do something. Chances are the dollar bill is not really going to float on its own. But then from which percpective are we talking about? I think this is where the folks who write the copy get confused. Effects should all start out saying, "When done correctly and with feelin' this is what the audience sees and they will bow down before you" Then they can should list performing conditions which would be best, etc, etc. Stop all the "No Strings, No Magnets, blah blah".

Chances are you are going to be upset when you open it up and you get an instruction sheet, (not even those now it seems everything is on cd) a twist tie and a button. You figure okay you paid for it may as well see what it all does when it comes together. Then you start to understand, (really you don't but you think you do) and then it really sucks pond water.

Then years later you see something like it performed and you are amazed, you spend weeks trying to figure out the name and where to get it, finally one day by chance you find it in a magic chat room. You pay good money to get it only to realize it is the same bloody thing you got years ago, the difference is the guy you saw do it made it look so freakin' good.

If you are still reading then you have more patience then I. Once I got an effect where the spectator picks a card. the deck goes face down into a clear crystal jewlery type box and the lid is closed. Suddenly a card from the center begins to move, seperates itself from the rest of the cards, actually presses itself up against the lid, opens the lid comes out of the box lands face up on the table and it is the signed card.

Oh this was so going to be my trick. But man when I started to learn the blasted thing it was absurdly stupid. I't was a ramped up version of the floating cork. I mean for crying out loud you can find it in Tarbell,
that out of date usless tomb (yes that is sarcasm). And it was a pain in the *rse to perform. A few years later I say the dealer at another magic convention and watched him perform it again and it was wonderful to watch.

As for the spectators, the better you perform it the more they will be disapointed in the method, but who cares you are not going to tell them how it is done anyway. Unlike us, they get to keep the magic if you allow them.

Last paragraph, when I first started bizarre magic a fellow magi on the shadow network warned me that the problem with the stuff I am looking for is that you will tend to spend more time looking and thinking about effects rather then doing them, and that is because we get caught up in method. I want to start a new religion I want to be able to make that pencil spin with just the power of my mind, yet I ended up resorting to that..well you know. It took me a stupidly long time to realize that the audience doesn't know about the gimmick, and all that wasted time I spent trying to spin the pencil with my mind.

dat8962 writes, in part: ". . . You can't be a magician without a chop cup. . ."

I'm going to give dat8962 the benefit of the doubt and assume that is in jest. Otherwise. . .

Jordan C wrote:...the method often disappoints?

Reminds me of the saying, " it's not what you've got, it's what you do with it."

dat8962 wrote:
You can't be a magician without a chop cup!

I don't own a Chop Cup

I think the simple methods to tricks are normally the best, If you over complicate things there is more chance the trick will go wrong.