What do specs know?

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Postby Lawrence » Mar 31st, '09, 15:47



Ted wrote:
Totally Mental wrote:I am getting a little wary of using a one way force deck


I would also be wary of using a one-way force deck - without first showing it to be normal first e.g. do something with a regular-looking deck and switch to the one-way after.


Do it the other way round, show it is a regular deck afterwards.
My usual one way routine starts with having them select a card then i put the deck away, then 3 or 4 monutes later get it back out and put the card back in (all face up).
Check that for a time delay!

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Postby Ted » Mar 31st, '09, 15:54

Lawrence wrote:
Ted wrote:
Totally Mental wrote:I am getting a little wary of using a one way force deck


I would also be wary of using a one-way force deck - without first showing it to be normal first e.g. do something with a regular-looking deck and switch to the one-way after.


Do it the other way round, show it is a regular deck afterwards.


If you quoth me in full :D:
Ted wrote:Switch again before another effect (or ditch the deck in the pocket containing the first deck) and you're pretty well set up if someone asks to see the cards again.

I suggested just such a thing. Great minds and all that.

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Postby Organi » Mar 31st, '09, 16:11

Thames Iron wrote:An acquintance of mine was entertained by a close up act in a hotel while on holidays in Jersey some years ago. However, the "poor" magician seemed to have a prosthetic thumb, poor chap, "didn't know they made them that small" :D


TI


:D That made me smile! Awesome stuff.

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Postby Mr_Grue » Mar 31st, '09, 16:19

Oo. I forget which volume of Michael Close's Workers it's in, but there's an excellent essay on principle audience assumptions in magic; things along the line of "the magician works alone" and "the magician uses one method". The principles are useful tools in covering your tracks or developing methods that are too remote to be guessed at.

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Postby daleshrimpton » Mar 31st, '09, 16:26

Ted wrote:
Lawrence wrote:
Ted wrote:
Totally Mental wrote:I am getting a little wary of using a one way force deck


I would also be wary of using a one-way force deck - without first showing it to be normal first e.g. do something with a regular-looking deck and switch to the one-way after.


Do it the other way round, show it is a regular deck afterwards.


If you quoth me in full :D:
Ted wrote:Switch again before another effect (or ditch the deck in the pocket containing the first deck) and you're pretty well set up if someone asks to see the cards again.



I suggested just such a thing. Great minds and all that.



what the heck is the problem with a one way force deck?


all you have to do is give the deck to a spectator to hold, cut, shuffle.. anything.
just give it to them.

doing this removes every last bit of heat from the deck, because...." there is no way you would give them a gaffed deck, is there?" 8)

you're like Yoda.you dont say much, but what you do say is worth listening to....
Greg Wilson about.... Me.
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Postby Lady of Mystery » Mar 31st, '09, 16:34

You're all worrying too much I think, I'm with Dale on this one. If you're handling things properly, people just don't suspect anything funny with the deck. I've got a routine that used a one way deck, I was quite nervous about using it to start with but after 6 months of perfoming it, I've never been called up on it.

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Postby Craig Browning » Mar 31st, '09, 16:58

I've but scanned the list here but the bare bones facts are quite simple; the laity might know exactly what the mechanics are in any given effect but that's not the same as knowing how the trick is done.

Confused?

One of my favorite grand illusions is the Sawing in Half. I've performed it using numerous devices over the years but my favorite (for conventional family shows) has always been the Thin Model unit (pictured here http://www.owenmagic.com/Illusions/Sawing/sawing.html) in that it's loaded with opportunities for fun and comedy.

Anywho... 90% of the world knows that the young lady is somehow folded up inside that very dinky upper portion of the cabinet though the construction of the thing seems to defy said possibility. Nonetheless you will still hear gasps at the instant you separate the halves, you will still hear people whispering amongst themselves saying that it simply can't work they way they always believed it worked and (I love this one) "that Masked Magician guy isn't showing us the real way this stuff works..."

When it comes to traditional magic, the public really does know, at least in theory, how a large part of what we do works... at the mechanical level, and that's the thing to remember in that knowing the mechanics is never the same thing as knowing how something actually "works" or is initiated. What creates this side of "the magic" is our striving, as performing artists, to perfect the presentation of whatever effect/routine it is we are seeking to produce.

How many times have you seen the local club member attempt to do a classic dove & manipulation act and yet, you see nearly everyone of his steals along side the awkwardness of his palms, lack of misdirection during a ditch or coat load grab (such as with cards or billiard balls), and so forth... even with the same music, tux and setting, they simply aren't Lance Burton. They are however, a very common sight and demonstration of the enthusiast that collects secrets, runs through them a few times and believes that's all there is to it.

Here's two final examples; the Sub Trunk and the Asrah Levitation.

For nearly 20 years the smoothest and fastest Sub Trunk routine on earth was the Penndragons and before them the Majestics. Criss Angel came along with the first well rehearsed version that challenged the standing held by Jonathon and Char for so many years. But compare anyone of these three acts to what you typically see presented by the average performer... even certain "pros" out there. Most present a "trick" whereas these other acts create enchantment and the sense of pure impossibility, even in the mind of those that know and have even worked the prop.

When it comes to the Asrah there is one particular moment that I've only seen two performers out of dozens, do properly -- when the girl is covered. Nine times out of ten you see that the girl has mysterious moved about 15 inches up-stage while laying on the table/couch. Too, it seems to take forever to actually cover the girl and move into the routine. The exceptions to this rule being the late Richiardi and present day Branson headliner Kirby Vanbirch (who also has one of the most deceptive couches I've ever seen used thanks to his prop manager's new trim job)

I don't know if I'm being clear or not via these examples; what I'm trying to convey is how much more amazing WE can make an effect that the public has some idea about, when it comes to the mechanics, look like anything but what their theories explain away.

One of my fondest memories when it comes to being a spectator watching a magician, was seeing Norm Neilson's act. From the technical point of view I knew most everything the man was doing and yet, how he worked with those slights completely hid them... concealed them by pushing the limits of said technique in such a manner as to make them go away and not exist in the mind of the beholder. It was the first time in a good number of years that I was truly captivated by a magician who was genuinely creating magic.

This is our goal, our obligation and how we give those know-it-alls in the audience that jaw dropping moment in which their friends, bored of their boasts and constant claims of knowing what's going on and even trying to narrate things, to laugh at them for getting fooled and proven wrong... at least by all appearances.

Truth be known, that's why I preach so much about striving towards such levels of true adeptness.

:wink:

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Postby reformedarsonist » Apr 1st, '09, 21:19

daleshrimpton wrote:I have a theory.

If you start out by thinking that the audiences know how everything is done, ( and indeed they all do deep down) you become a better performer.

why?


because then, you set up each effect in a different way, almost daring the audience to catch you out.
another side effect of this, will be that your presentations become more entertaining .
It certainly gets you thinking about misdirection a lot more. Just look at the clips of Tommy Wonder on YouTube - I have read about the majority of his tricks in The Books of Wonder and they still catch me out every time. Because he was an absolute master of controlling attention and built his effects with that in mind.

I've heard a lot of theories - I've had predictions written with "tiny pens", Derren Brown's force of a boat picture was "waiting until we started talking about the boat races and then doing it", Andy Nyman's magic graphology was "looking at what we wrote in the reflection in our eyes" despite the fact my back was turned... but usually I find that the specs that know the score will wait until afterwards to tell you their idea. Sometimes, if they're right about something small, I tell them so, and if they're wrong, I always tell them they're right.

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Postby reformedarsonist » Apr 3rd, '09, 00:47

Also, while we're discussing what specs are clever enough to guess, I'm guessing most of the spectators present for the first routine of this clip worked out the mechanics behind one-ahead/peek routines in mentalism thanks to Docc Hilford's beach hat. Inspired by this routine, I've started doing all my TWriting under a giant sombrero.

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Postby Shufton » Apr 3rd, '09, 14:56

What we, as magicians, offer an audience, is a series of blatant and subtle proofs that the explanations they reach for could not possibly be the solution (even though they might just be).

Most folks will assume you are using trickery - they KNOW you are. Others might think something more fantastic. Some magicians/mentalists present their illusions as the real thing - Uri G. for example.

Remember, we as magicians also get fooled all the time.

You can fool someone with a trick THEY KNOW if you change the dressing a bit and make it seem like something else.

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