talkmagic.co.uk

RIOT DON'T DIET

I can't believe how right wing magicians are. It really makes me glad I'm not a magician, haha!

You know what makes people riot? When peaceful protest acheives nothing. When peaceful protest isn't even reported on the news!

We peacefully protested the impending Iraq invasion in March and April 2003: They did it anyway.

We peacefully protested the increase in detention without charge under the spurious anti-terror legislation: They did it anyway.

We peacefully protested the recent invasion and bombardment of Lebanon. They did it anyway.

We peacefully protested the latest Gaza seige and massacre. They did it anyway.

How many times would you ask someone politely to please stop kicking you before you decided to kick them back? Even that lily-livered, pacifist coward, Ghandi, believed in violence as a last resort - and you have to admit the state of affairs in this country and also globally is totally screwed up.

Anarchic destruction isn't the answer to anything, and ultimately it will make things worse, but can't you lot see the reason why this sort of thing is being considered?! It's called empathy - research has shown that chimps and even some sea mammals have it, but evidently it's dying out in humans...

I've finished now, so you can get back to whatever Melanie Phillips or Richard Littlejohn articles you were reading.

but it still won't do any good...

sorry, but it won't...and you know why i think that too..

EDIT: and it doesnt make us right-wing either...so there...

Empathy works both ways and haven't we supposedly evolved more than chimps and sea mammals?

The problem with most rioting in this country, and most places abroad is that few of those involved actually care about the cause of the protest and just look at the issue as a good opportunity to lash out and it's generally the wrong person that suffers as a result.

IAIN wrote:but it still won't do any good...

If you read what I wrote, you'll notice I admitted that openly.

IAIN wrote:and it doesnt make us right-wing either...so there...

Oh, I think it does. What could be more of a flashing beacon of the right than the vituperate ridicule and snarky dismissal of mass protest and organised unrest?

dat8962 wrote:Empathy works both ways and haven't we supposedly evolved more than chimps and sea mammals?.

No. "Evolved more" is a bit of a false statement as what does it mean, if it means gone through more cell mutations then we are way down the list due to are relatively long lifespan, stuff like fruit flies are the most evolved creatures with funghis and other micro-organisms being more evolved than them.

If you mean intelligent then the answer is yes!

dat8962 wrote:Empathy works both ways and haven't we supposedly evolved more than chimps and sea mammals?

That's exactly my point. People's dismissal of, and refusal to understand, why this sort of thing happens is like evolution in reverse.

As for empathy working both ways; what sort of empathy do you think the billionairre bankers have for the working class whos taxes have bailed them out and allowed them to continue paying themselves astronomical bonuses?

queen of clubs wrote:Oh, I think it does. What could be more of a flashing beacon of the right than the vituperate ridicule and snarky dismissal of mass protest and organised unrest?

there are more than two ways of looking at things y'know...it doesnt have to be "whatever the inverse of my opinion is" is therefore x,y or z...that's a very narrow view to take...

you could also apply the same thinking to pro-lifers and such like, who go on about the sanctity of human life, whilst also bombing abortion clinics with the staff still inside it...

note - i said "could", not stating that "you are"...

queen of clubs wrote:
You know what makes people riot? When peaceful protest acheives nothing. When peaceful protest isn't even reported on the news!

We peacefully protested the impending Iraq invasion in March and April 2003: They did it anyway.

We peacefully protested the increase in detention without charge under the spurious anti-terror legislation: They did it anyway.

We peacefully protested the recent invasion and bombardment of Lebanon. They did it anyway.

We peacefully protested the latest Gaza seige and massacre. They did it anyway.

These are all protests about a very specific goal / aim. What precisely do you want to get out of the current protests?

I was sent an 'anarchy agenda' that said they are planning to bang on hotel doors on Thursday morning. I'm not entirely sure what they intend to achieve.

giznorm wrote:I was sent an 'anarchy agenda' that said they are planning to bang on hotel doors on Thursday morning. I'm not entirely sure what they intend to achieve.

That is funny. That'll teach those ordinary people to stay in hotels won't it? Anarchists Against Lie Ins. They're an up and coming group arent they?

Thing with all this is, these anarchist cretins are telling everyone what they DONT want, but dont have the first clue about what they DO want.
Probably want us all living in the hills like Hobbits.

the other thing to consider (maybe) is that do these protesters see or understand how the recession started, properly, i mean...

rather than just thinking "ug...banks...grrr...no money...."

and if, (only if) any damage is caused during the protests - the irony is, that'll cost people a fair few quid to repair, money they havent got..cos its a recession...

and ultimately - all finances have their ups and downs, we've had recessions before - we'll no doubt have 'em again too...peaks and troughs...

wierdly, very few people bother about how big companies regularly avoid paying all their tax due to off shore accounts, loopholes and so on...i don't see any protests in the streets about that very often...and thats been going on since corporations began...

you can go and blame corporations on the americans though, cos they invented them...

queen of clubs wrote:I've finished now, so you can get back to whatever Melanie Phillips or Richard Littlejohn articles you were reading.

The assumption of ME being right wing is deeply insulting. I used to think direct action changed things, but I grew up. I've come to understand, after going on demos, signing petitions, writing strongly worded letters to MPs, etc. that it achieves nothing but a bit of empty publicity for tomorrow's chip paper. Except in very rare cases where public opinion is already on the side of the protesters so much so that the government actually fears for its majority, smashing up McDonalds just leads to police overtime. Nothing more. There was no competent opposition in the UK at the time of the Iraq war demos. There still isn't.

Generating cheap publicity from outrage changes nothing. It merely feeds the media for a day. 'When what you do doesn't work, do something else.' The NLP crowd are wrong on so many things but they got that right.

So, you need to start finding out how to use the system to change the system. As Tony Benn once said, 'democracy is the only legitimacy'. All the legislation is there to read online. Read it and find out how to use it to change the state. Use the tools available to shape the state and to demand better from it.

Start by finding out how to use the Freedom of Information Act. There are 200,000 FOI requests every year. 60% come from private individuals, and God help any authority that refuses to comply. Find out what 'they' know, what they've done and what they plan. They HAVE to tell you.

Use the Data Protection Act too. Prosecutions by the Information Commissioner for not complying with your requests are real. If a policeman films you, hand his inspector a Subject Access Request Order on the spot. Go to the ACPO web site and read the guidelines - they're the rules under which arrests must be made. Learn them backwards. Learn to spot mistakes. LEARN.

But above all, stay legal or you may as well not bother at all.

I'm just amused that the anarchists are getting organised

greedoniz wrote:I'm just amused that the anarchists are getting organised

Their main downfall is that there are as many agendas all tugging in different directions as there are anarchists. It doesn't work. I recently watched a documentary about the anarco punk scene of the early 1980s. As with any form of decentralised self organisation with only a vague set of ideals, it didn't take long for people to start denouncing each other over pointless things like the type of coffee they served at their meetings. Fools.

"good evening ladies and gents, i shall be your anachist for today's riot...

please note that later on, i shall be widdling into a telephone kiosk, smashing a window 'cos I'm well hard...

and then signing on tomorrow...therefore invalidating my principles..."