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I see everywhere magicians saying I am almost semi professional or I just turned professional..

My questions lays in...how do you know when this moment comes...are you sitting on the toilet when you have a magical epiphany (sp?) or does some one call you it one day.

Now don't get me wrong I know you have to work hard to be professional but would you put on your business card Amateur Magician or unprofessional magician lol.

So how do you know when to say I am semi pro or pro.....I mean I will always go about a gig professionally but that would only make me professional in one meaning of the word.

Regards Justen Smith.

I would consider someone to be a professional magician if their full time occupation is in the field of magic/performing magic.

Semi-professional if it is their second job and amateur if it is a hobby/interest i.e. unpaid.

I think there can be a difference between professional and talented though.

and dont forget, there are some bad professional magicians out there...

A_n_t wrote:I would consider someone to be a professional magician if their full time occupation is in the field of magic/performing magic.

Semi-professional if it is their second job and amateur if it is a hobby/interest i.e. unpaid.

I think there can be a difference between professional and talented though.

IAIN wrote:and dont forget, there are some bad professional magicians out there...

Lots of em

yeah, concentrate on being as good as you can be, and as entertaining as can be...thats what will make you professional...

its just a label otherwise...its something you are, rather than something you decide...

Hang on though, The title of this thread is Professionalism.


This has nothing to do with the amount of gigs one has in a year, or wether you accept payment for them.

Professionalism , is the way in which you conduct yourself in front of the audiences, and how you as a person deal with the booker.

turning up on time, performing good magic, and being entertaining, is being professional in ones chosen field.

full time workers on the other hand, are people that make their living only by performing. And, as has been hinted above, there are a great number of people doing this, that are not good at being profesional in their aproach.

and you can tell that Ian knew i was going to say that...

One sociologists' definition is:
A "professional" is a member of a "professional" organisation.

A "professional" organisation is effectively what other "professional" organisations call "professional".

There are some, rather flexible, rules about "professional" which includes that the person needs to have studied for something that can only be taught. For example, engineering might be in this class, while drawing or tea-leaf reading is possibly not.

The "professions" therefore are therefore those trades in which the "professional" member is accountable to the "professional" body. A doctor, a barrister, a solicitor, a dentist. These are "professionals" because they are members of a "professional" body. If they make a major mistake then the "professional" body will sanction them. A doctor's receptionist is not a "professional" because it is the medical practice partner who has the sanction not a "professional" body. Teachers can't be "professionals" because they are employed for their labour and are not members of a "professional" body but rather a trade union. I don't know if the GMC officially recognises the RCN as a professional body for instance. Maybe it does which shoots my statements down. I'd be interested to know, but I think it's a bit like the definition of a "country". Only those "countries" that are recognised by other "countries" are actually "countries", despite what the members might believe. I'm thinking of Palestine/Tibet/Wales/Yorkshire.

The distinction is blurred if the doctor works for a drugs company as they are effectively hiring out their talent like any other trades person.

The definition is further blurred because another definition is basically someone who is paid for their deliverables and carries their own risk (ie self-employed)

And further blurred because "professional" is taken to mean "anyone who has a job" which is why adverts for flat shares ask for "professional people".

Then there are the ABC marketing categories (oh how glorious is the british class system). A self-employed mage who owns their own company, employs people and is the company director would (I think) be an A or a B. I don't know where entertainers sit on the scale.

I'm not sure I agree with all of the definitions and it's many many years since I studies sociology so the current thinking may well have moved on. But i'd be inclined to call a magic a trade, rather than a profession because of the lack of a necessity for academic rigour. As I say, I may well be totally wrong. If I am I'm sure that someone will put me right.

Being professional in the way you carry yourself and being a professional in a given area are two different things... to a certain extent at least.

For example my friend is an amateur boxer, he fights in front of crowds, to official rules but does not get paid. A professional boxer does the same thing but does get paid.

A professional person is something quite different. As aporia states, this normally implies somebody of professional public standing. I good rule of thumb for this is that if they can authorise your passport photograph they are probably considered in a professional role.

I think the original point of this post though was not necessarily on about professionalism at all, more a case of "making it".

At what point do you suddenly wake up and realise "You know what I'm a successful, talented, magician."

And the answer to that question is.....
You dont ever say that. You allow others to say it to you.


If you decide that yourself, you potentialy stop learning, and improving.

To me a professional magician is one who makes their living out of magic, it doesn't mean that they are any good. The money that I make from gigs is just pocket money to me, it's not my main income so I don't consider myself professional.

That's doesn't stop me calling myself professional if I'm being asked about a gig though

Lomy,

One can be professional, without being A professional.

Thanks guys..

I hope this did not comes across as when can i say i am professional it was more (which has been answered) when is some one proffesional and what does it actually mean to be proffesional...

Mainly because I hear people saying I am a proffesional entertainer and i have always thought well how do they know that.

I especially liked the piece from aporia, i do like me sociology studied it for a while, just read a section on freud (SIck sick man)

Thanks again everyone.