talkmagic.co.uk

Klangster1971 wrote:I seem to remember that Dan Harlan has a very good DVD available on constructing an entire Kids Show... part of his 'packs small, plays big' range.

Might be worth a look.


Sean

It's okay, and has some nice ideas in it, but it's ultimately aimed at the over 7s - and has a very passive audience.

There are lots of tricks on there, but very little 'business' or gags or any of the real stuff that goes into children's magic. The tricks are the beginning and end of a routine. When it comes to kids' shows, it's the bit in the middle that makes it magic and fun and entertaining.

I'm not at all convinced that this show would fly well in the more chaotic environment of a real kids' bithday party.

Terry Herbert's DVDs are terrific though.

Pete

Oh, and I'd also recommend that you give Chris Capehart's DVD a very wide berth.

Much of his act involves embarrassing the kids, making them look stupid, and encouraging all their friends to point and laugh at whoever he's selected as the idiot of the moment. That's not a good starting point.

He also sets up the show with the claim that some of the kids can win games consoles and other prizes that will ultimately never appear.

Not good - even worse as it all serves to make the performer look smug.

I watched the video agog at the A-Z display of things not to do at kids' birthday parties.

Maybe things are different across the Pond.

Either way... A definite thumbs down from me.

Pete

That’s very interesting question. I am getting to the stage of semi-retiring after forty years as a pro children’s entertainer and goodness how many years as a semi pro before that. One thing you can’t buy of course is experience and it’s that item that will teach you a lot.

I’ve spent some time thinking about this and my conclusions are as follows. It could be said that you should be yourself and not try to put on any other personality. You will have enough to do with the show without having the act the part of another character. On the other hand, it might be felt that adopting another character it might be to your advantage. Take for instance a clown. Once in costume they can expand themselves and feel more confident that just yourself who may – at the moment – feel a little apprehensive. Note. I am certainly not suggesting you be a clown.

Think about children’s shows on television and there all the presenters are certainly young (well compared to myself they are). I will admit that most are somewhat over-the –top in their presentational style whilst you have said that you are somewhat quiet by nature. Dress in a more colourful way than normal clothes. I have always had made special short sleeved shirts of red/striped material and similar hat. At once the youngsters know that you are the entertainer.

I also feel that a suitable PA kit these days is important. (Goodness knows what I did before they became common) There is more than the obvious reason. It will certainly allow you to be heard a little better and not have to strain your voice so much. Have one with a built in system for playing music. These days many come with a built in slot to insert your ipod/mp3 player. This will enable you to play a bit of suitable pre-show music (The show is about to start!). It will also enable you to play a quick game to give a break to the magic. (As you progress you may even get request to run the entire party with all the games). Many kits now come with a built in Radio mic. system. A great boon as this avoid trailing wires and on that subject, have a Hand-held (hang it around the neck) and not the tie clip type. There are many reasons for this that I wont go into at the moment, as PA gear is a vast subject on its own. On the subject of trailing wires – have a kit that can be run from battery as well as mains power. Adults will appreciate the safety to children on this aspect.

I haven’t mentioned your show as yet. Equip yourself with a good whistle with a pea. The children are all running around and you are set. Switch off the music, blow your whistle and then quietly say, “Come and sit down in front of me”. Indicating the floor in front of you. Then wait whilst they settle. If necessary raise the mic hanging around your neck to your lips and do an emphatic “Shssssshhhh”. You are on!

Your show must above all be entertaining and colourful. As a general rule forget clever magicians tricks unless you are working to some older children. (I always have a few of these to hand should there be an older brother or sister present) Fun, laughter and colour are what I promote. Every children’s entertainer will tell you that the ‘bits of business’ are the life blood of any show. There are many sources of such material in books etc.

Your first effect should be bright and entertaining and not one involving helpers. For years I have used a hat production of silks getting the children to call out the colours as they appear.

You have mentioned that your personality is quiet rather than loud and extrovert. In some ways an advantage as there are entertainers who do whip children into a frenzy calling that entertainment. However a careful choice of effects will enable you to select some that do generate more excitement than others. Your show therefore should always contain ‘light & shade’. A contrast of effects to keep the interest going.

I would suggest that a puppet is a good investment. I’ve never been keen on the type where the puppet only appears to whisper in the performers ear. A proper ‘talking’ puppet is so much better and your skills as a vent needs to be minimal. It’s the entertainment and comedy that such a character brings to the show.

How long for a show? Well for a newcomer I think everyone would agree that 30 minutes is adequate. Only try longer when you have more experience. You will at once sense if your audience is getting restless. This is where the change of pace is so important. Fees? Well, it might well upset other children’s entertainers in your area, but you should not expect a ‘pro’ fee when you are just starting off. Try a few ‘freebies’ with local groups and some friend’s birthday parties to get the feel of things.

There are many DVDs on children’s entertainment, I even sell one myself. (Sorry I should not have added that!) However, these will cost a few pounds of course.

What effects you choose is up to you of course. Remember, they don’t have to be clever, but colourful and entertaining with your personality being the main factor. I think you are a sensible young man having the thought to put the question in the first place. Don’t move in next door to me as, although a pensioner now, I still have to do shows for my bread & bitter – sorry I should have said, butter.

Best of luck.

Thinking further on your question JJ, I thought these observations might be of interest. I went to see a young magician recently on one of his first outings. A very presentable show I thought of around 40 minutes, but I had the following observations. He brought his props in a suitcase into the hall, found a table and set out his stall like a dealer dem. (Or even a car boot sale) It looked a bit of a muddle I thought. At one stage for various reasons, little fingers approached anxious to examine these wonderful items . . .

So the lesson is, that many before us have discovered, is to have a ‘magic box’ or table that can contain all that is required. There are many on the market, most being referred to as ‘roll on tables’ for obvious reasons. But before you rush out to buy one, have a ‘hands-on’ to start with. Stop to think. Many won’t carry as much as you might wish. Then you will have to carry in the ‘magic box’ and still the suitcase with the additional items.

Many might enable you to carry quite a bit, but at the show, for working convenience, you may have to remove props to display and to get at other items needed. The theory of these tables is that you remove a prop, do the effect and replace the prop into the table. I can assure you – as will many others – that in practice this doesn’t always work well. I took a photograph from the back of one magicians table showing exactly what a muddle can be got into. If you like I could email this photo. Let me know! The entertainer is not identified of course.

Many children’s entertainers in the end have designed something for themselves. There are several plans available but remember the ancient proverb “Always engage brain before operating saw”. One of the best is in Peter Pinner’s lecture notes from many years back. Needless to say I have my own that suits me and others have made theirs based on my kit. Adjusted to suit their needs naturally.

Many in-house parties have limited space to layout props for display, plus the problem of little fingers being in reaching distance of your valuable items. (And they will reach given half a chance)

Folk say to me “How long does it take to set your show?” The answer is that I can walk in with the kit and start instantly and it’s all packed at the end ready to depart. No fuss – no mess. Oh, by the way – avoid like the plague any effects with liquids and confetti. Sooner or later either or both will get spilt on Lady CorBlimey’s expensive carpet. . . . . You have got your Public Liability insurance I hope?

Hope I haven’t put you off yet.
Best of luck.
Mark

I suppose this is a cue for me to post a link to my favourite children's entertainer at work. I know I have posted this before but after all the chap is my favourite.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PB3wQz-Md4

Note the controlled chaos. The key word is "controlled"

mark lewis wrote:I suppose this is a cue for me to post a link to my favourite children's entertainer at work. I know I have posted this before but after all the chap is my favourite.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PB3wQz-Md4

Note the controlled chaos. The key word is "controlled"

That was great Mark!

I loved it Mark. Brilliant opening.

By the way, JJ24, there is some useful advice above, but some postings that you can safely ignore. Kids shows are not difficult. Once you get on their wavelength (look at Mark) it is a breeze. Pure pleasure - and you get paid.
Parents expect you to fill an hour, but that doesn't mean an hour of magic. You could start with 30 minutes of magic, some games, then balloons. Time filled. As time passes add more magic until you are happy with the mix.
Don't under-price yourself (everything else Mark Wynn said is spot-on - great advice). My advice to all beginning kids magic is to check out what your opposition charge and charge at least what the lowest of them charges. Don't under-cut the opposition. You only drive the price down for everyone.
By all means do a few shows for charities and friends. But when a stranger hires you charge a professional fee, do a professional show, and things will go well for you.
Good luck with it. Tony.

Tony will be interested to know that I did that show in Ireland many, many times. I also thought that some of the above posts should be disregarded but of course, as everyone knows, I am far too tacful by nature to have said so.

It really is a very pleasant way to earn a living. If you have the knack then it will be the best type of show you can do. If you don't have the knack and you are not able to get the knack then the shows will be a living hell for you.

The advantages of kid shows are as follows. You don't have to wait around anywhere near as much as you do with adult shows. You can, in most cases, start within 5 minutes of arriving and be out within 5 minutes of finishing. At adult shows it is not unknown to be hanging about for a couple of hours.

The shows are comparitively easy to get compared with adult shows. More of them. Perhaps less money but the quantity makes up for the lower prices.

90% of them take place in the daytime and you can have the evenings free (unless you have an adult show at night)

And you have the best and most appreciative audience of all. But you do have to have the knack for it as I keep saying. If you do it will be the easiest show of all. If you don't it may well be the hardest.

I remember after I first took up kid shows in Blackpool I found it terribly easy and as Tony says "a breeze". I took to it straight away and I found my first three or four shows to be as easy as hell. The thing I liked best was that the technical part was so easy. Coming from a sleight of hand background I was used to practicing a trick for hours before I got the knack of it. With kid shows all I had to do was press a button, push a lever or do some non-finger flinging type of thing and I was away. The skills required were of a different sort but I was lucky enough to possess those already.

In fact I found it so easy that I took great delight in annoying the local Blackpool magicians by telling them how easy it all was. Poor old Charlie Clifton was furious with me because I said it was so incredibly easy and I could do it standing on my head. He thought the whole thing was dreadfully difficult and of course he had been doing it for years. When some annoying upstart who had done only three shows told him that it wasn't difficult at all he got greatly offended which of course gave me great delight.

This was around 35 years ago. As you can see I haven't changed.

The very last thing I intend to do is start a discussion on fees. This has been ongoing since the days of the Jesters in the Court of King Arthur. There are as many opinions on fees as there are stars in the sky. Most of us, when we get bitten by the magic bug, start by entertaining our friends etc. then polish our skills at the magic club. When sufficient skills and experience has been gained only then do we start taking paid engagements.

Now with children’s magic and entertainment, it’s so easy to buy a few self-working props and launch straight into taking paid engagements. Sadly without any performing experiences of such work.

I can recall past instances of working men’s club comedians’ etc. thinking that children’s entertainment was the path to many riches. (In the 70s & 80s this seemed to be so) they bought a few props and, knowing the fees they could get in the clubs, launched their new career. Sadly they found that the professional world of children’s entertainment was not as easy as it appeared and just getting the children into a frenzy with some popular props was not the road to success. Sadly this left a bad taste in the mouths of many adults who tarred all magicians with the same brush.

This is why I mentioned in my earlier posting to our very sensible JJ that he should do a few free jobs for friends children’s birthday parties etc. just to polish up on his act and get valuable working experience that is needed in this – what can be at times - a demanding field. I repeat to JJ. Don’t start out by charging a professional fee until you know (and others tell you) that you can provide a professional service.

Here endeth the lesson.

Mark

I suppose I had better comment on this "getting kids into a frenzy" stuff.
It is perfectly acceptable and even commendable to do this providing you do it at the right time and don't do it too often. And the key thing is that it has to be controlled.

The danger is that less experienced entertainers don't know how to control it. Therefore it would be wiser for those people to go the boring route or if I am supposed to be tacful the less excitable route. If you can't control it (as most magicians can't) then the kids will start to get disruptive and ruin your shows.

There are ways and means of controlling the kids. Simply by saying "the quietest one can help me do the next trick" or "when I say three you all say shhh" can work wonders. Have a magic line that the kids cannot cross will also keep them in their places. And it is a very good idea to send out a leaflet before the show giving "hints, tips and suggestions" such as don't give out presents or food to the kids during the show or suggestions to the adults to not chatter or go into another room if they really want to. Quite frankly I have far more trouble controlling the adults than I do the kids.

Or you can go the Wilfrid Tyler route. Years and years ago I read an old Gen magazine where Wilfrid had a column on children's entertainment. I bet the magazine article in question was from the fifties. The technique described of controlling kids works just as well today. I call it the "rolling stone" method.

Wilfrid recommended going in slowly and not charging in like a bull in a China shop. In other words you keep the noisier items to the end. So the show builds up quietly and like a rolling stone gathering moss it gets progressively noisier as you get nearer the end. This works well. The problem with getting the kids riled up too early is that you may find it hard to quieten them down as you go along.

This is how I apply Wilfrid's technique. I don't think Wilfrid would like it but it suits me fine. I DO get them riled up straight away as can be seen in my videoclip. But I am judging them while I am doing it. I have excellent control techniques and can turn off the noise tap whenever I need to. So sometimes I can take a chance and keep the frenzy all through the show providing the frenzy has plenty of laughter moments and breaks from the frenzy. In other words I am able to keep things under control.

The times I take the chance is when I see the kids are quiet or too well behaved. I also take the chance when I see the kids are not particularly rowdy. I judge all this by the time I do the silk from pocket nonsense. If at this point I deem the kids too rowdy I then switch to the Wilfrid Tyler system. If I deem them to be a bit quieter then I keep up the frenzy and watch it carefully during the show.

You really don't want the kids sitting there all quiet and full of "wonder" the whole show. You will bore the stuff out of them. Kids will like the magic certainly but all they really want is a good laugh.

Controlled audience participation is the secret to having a good children's show.

We haven't heard anything back from JJ. I hope he can see that from - at least - the two Marks (and all the others) there is a wealth of valuable advice in this thread. All of which adds up to experience gathered over the years.

Free advice without having to buy a book or DVD. He should be so lucky!

I do hope JJ will Read, Mark and Inwardly Digest. and will be on his way to becoming a successful children's entertainer.
Mark.

Actually I DO sell a DVD of my show. Performance only. A mere $30. It is not advertised on my website but you all know where to find me.

Strangely, when I was little the best effects I ever saw were the ones where THE MAGICIAN "DIDNT KNOW"! I remember one, where he put a wand in his pocket, and turned round, and it just jumped out! He then would turn back, and see it on the floor, put back in his pocket, and turn round again, only for the same outcome! Next time, when he turned round, it started rolling away from him on the floor, and the whole audience were trying to catch it! I'm rather ashamed that I genuinly thought the magician didnt know what was going to happen, but hey, I was small! Anyway, the point of this rather pointless, rambling story is that the effects that seem strongest to children may not seem very strong at all to you! Now Ive just confused myself!

I am not confused. It is this silly antics kind of thing that kids most remember.

I have not read through everypost but just in case nobody has said it yet. In this day and age, don't be the only adult in the room. The very last thing you will ever want to hear is a kid running up to his mother saying, "that man touched me". It doesn't matter if you just put your hand on the kids shoulder, or handed the kid a sponge bunny. Always have an extra set of eyes and its best if it is one of the kids parents.