talkmagic.co.uk

Randy wrote:Why not speak to a Psychologist or a Therapist and find out what is making you depressed.

It's manic depression, it doesn't need a reason

I remember being 16.....

I don't.....

Mandrake wrote:I don't.....

Come on... you've been 16 like 4 times now

Can we have rid of this troll now please?

Lawrence wrote:Come on... you've been 16 like 4 times now

And still not been kissed on any of those occasions !

Mandrake wrote:

Lawrence wrote:Come on... you've been 16 like 4 times now

And still not been kissed on any of those occasions !

Buy me a beer next Blackpool! I'm easy! must be number 5 (or 6) by then!

Eshly...
I've read most of this thread, and skimmed other bits, the bit that jumped out though was where you said you'd rather the solution wasn't medication.

This is not a suggestion to jack in the pills and try something new... I believe pills have their place, but I tend to see them more as something to help a person stay temporarily on an even keel while they sort out some other issues and then come off them. Maybe that's not right for everyone, but it's my general view of most medications.

That said...

I'm currently reading an incredibly interesting book called Last Child In The Woods by Richard Louv. He draws connections between the reduction of time spent outdoors, in nature, an increase in indoor consumer-type entertainment (computer games, TV and the likes) and an increase in obesity, attention disorders and depression.
His focus is mainly on kids but the general point is that we need to have exposure to and interaction with natural environments in a free, unstructured way in order to function properly.

I have no idea what your childhood was like in that respect, but maybe it's something to consider.

I say this fully aware of the negative connotation usually attached to it, but maybe you need to "get out more". Not in the usual way it's said... but how much time do you spend outside in open, green spaces without an iPod or any magical/mentalist paraphernalia to distract you? Have you ever taken some seeds, put them in the ground and grown your own food? Have you ever wandered along over wasteground or a country lane picking berries and eating them as you go?
If so, do you still?

I find that I'm on a much more even keel (not that I suffer from depression as such) and have a much brighter and healthier outlook on life, myself and other people when I've been outside than when I've been cooped up in my office or practicing a magical effect. Five minutes of digging a hole on my allotment does far more for me than a couple of hours of entertainment or magic practice... just arriving in the woods or at the foot of a hill takes me away from all the bother... sitting still enough to watch animals foraging and the likes is almost as good as it gets.

Maybe this is all completely irrelevant to your situation/condition and would be no help at all... but maybe not... and to be honest it seems like the benefit of time spent outdoors has barely been looked at beyond the obesity element... and there outdoors is somewhere to go and exercise rather than just to be there.

This might mean nothing at all, it might be a huge help... but I've said it now and you can consider it.

Whatever comes of this post, or doesn't, I hope you can find whatever it is you need to straighten your head out the way you want to.

Now, I wonder how hard a slating this will kick up.

I heard another good argument once - from my GP.

We think nothing of taking paracetamol when we have headaches. Why should there be such a stigma over emotional pain?

The analogy holds true - a change in lifestyle can help get rid of recurring headaches. Similarly, a change in lifestyle (and mindset) it can often help get rid of depression. But that also assumes that the condition is psychological rather than physiological. Many depressives are physically unable to 'snap out of it'.

So yes... CBT is a great idea. Self-help books might give a useful perspective on the condition and give a slightly greater sense of control over the problem. But that doesn't mean that anyone should have to suffer the synptoms - especially when there's no tried-and-tested one-size-fits-all drug-free cure.

Pete

I don't know if this has been mentioned in the thread before (I've only skimmed over it) but, by far the best book I have read on the topic was written by Spike Milligan and his doctor, Anthony Clare - "Depression and How To Survive it".

I have absolutely no desire to talk about my experiences with depression but suffice to say that the book helped me more than any pills or counselling sessions ever did.


cheers,

Sean

Now I've not got any real experience with depression, what I had was more of an emotional breakdown but there were a few things that really helped me and still do. These may or may not be any good for you but were invaluable to me. One was writing down how I was feeling, quite often I'd just feel blue without really knowing why, it wasn't until I started writing that all sorts of things that I hadn't realised came out. It was a great way to get things out and get me thinking about them. Quite often these writings were in an email to someone and it really helped knowing that someone would read them. Emailing my thoughts also stopped me from feeling that I had to hide everything and helped me to be more open with things.

Another thing that really helped me was getting out running, I didn't always feel like it to start with but an hour or two running in the country has a brilliant calming effect and really lets you be with your thoughts. It doesn't have to be a run of course, a walk will probabaly be just as good.

But the mian thing for me was just forcing myself to be myself and do normal things. Sometimes it was very tempting to just curl up for days on end on my bed but it didn't do me any good. Once I forced myself up and about I felt so much better.

As I said, I didnt have depression so this might not help you but it might be something worth thinking about.

Another thing that really helped me was getting out running, I didn't always feel like it to start with but an hour or two running in the country has a brilliant calming effect and really lets you be with your thoughts. It doesn't have to be a run of course, a walk will probabaly be just as good

This is why i was surprised that this came on during a performance. The chemicals that are triggered by the body during a run, or other exercise, are the same chemicals that you produce during a performance.

the absolute best way to combat this incidently ( from experience) is to realise why your becomming depressed in the first place.

Regardless of the reason, you will find that there will only be two options. Those being...

A... Something that is within your power to change.

or

B.... something that is not within your power to change.

For everything that falls into Catagory A... you change it for the better.( or at least for the different, as Its true to say that a change IS as good as a rest.)

For everything that falls under catagory B.. Resign yourself to the simple fact that you can do nothing what so ever to change the situation, and it's going to happen wether you are depressed or not, so why get depressed about it in the first place?
After all, at the end of the day you WILL cope with the enevitable better if your not depressed when it happens.This in turn changes in part, the Cat B events, into the Cat A.

A win/win situation how ever you look at it.


oh, and another thing.. every day find pleasure from some small event ..
If Its a nice sunny day... Be happy It's not raining.
If It's raining.. Go out in it and splash about in the puddles... or be glad that your indors, not getting wet.

Eat something you like, and savour it..
Be glad that you woke up... Its much better than the alternative! ( this one works more the older you get)

if your adicted to something... give it up. The joy of realizing how well your doing, is better for you than any booze, fags, pills, ect.

and there is no shame in self congratulation. Because it's from the heart.

The problem you'll find when you talk to anyone who has experienced (first or second hand) depression is that nothing causes it. It is just a feeling that is impossible to shake.

In Millgan's book he explains it as a black shroud that envelopes you that is impossible to shake off until it is good and ready to come off.

That's why a lot of people don't understand why highly paid/well respected celebs can suffer from depression - kind of thinking "what the hell have they got to be depressed about?" whereas the truth is that when it hits there is absolutely nothing that can be done about it.

I'd recommend the book to anybody - sufferer/carer or not. It's insightful and, being Spike Milligan, very funny in places!



Sean

Ive seen Spikes depression from the other side. Not through his words, or writings. Ive seen how Jane, his daughter was when he was in one of his moods.

he decided to fake a mild heart atack, because he couldnt face going out in front of an audience. Muggins here had to tell 500 people that the show wouldnt be taking place, one of them being Jane, who had turned up to see her father. She was not ammused. If i remember rightly, her words were.. "Oh no the b******s up to his old f***ing tricks again"

What's interesting from my point of view, is that sometimes, people in the public eye, play it up a bit, because they then get the sympathy that's needed during an attack.

And i am STILL talking from personal experience here, because i know that i used to do this.If i was" in one", as people called it, i would make sure that i was visible in the hope that some body would come up and ask me if i was ok... and that was often all i needed to snap out of it.

this all down to being "on" 24/7... always the life and soul of the party.. for everybody else.

nowadays.. If i want to be quiet, Ill be quiet.

I saw mention in a past post of cognitive behavioural therapy.

While it takes more work & dedication than "tell me about your mother" sessions, it is a valuable tool. You learn to self diagnose & treat.

Milligan's book looks interesting too, so thanks for the recommendation.

daleshrimpton wrote:
What's interesting from my point of view, is that sometimes, people in the public eye, play it up a bit, because they then get the sympathy that's needed during an attack.

.... i would make sure that i was visible in the hope that some body would come up and ask me if i was ok... and that was often all i needed to snap out of it.

this all down to being "on" 24/7... always the life and soul of the party.. for everybody else.

nowadays.. If i want to be quiet, Ill be quiet.

Those are interesting observations, Dale but I'm not sure the fit - certainly with my experiences.

When depression hits, it can be crippling (almost physically!) - Milligan even likens it to having a broken leg and someone saying "Come on, get up, let's go for a run!! It's only a broken leg!" In my experience, I didn't want to be around anybody. I think that's why it can be such a damaging condition - sufferers will hide themselves away and who knows what they might do to themselves when suffering an attack?

I think one of the problems is that the term has become a 'catch-all' for all manner of mood swings - a bit like when people refer to a mild head cold as 'The Flu'.

I certainly don't think medication is the one and only answer - it's often harder to come off of those bloody tablets due to the physical changes that occur as a consequence but I also think that the medical profession needs to stop labelling quite so many people as suffering from the condition. It seems to be an easy 'out' and a relatively simple method of getting people onto drugs that they often don't need.


Sean