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Dale, it's the push off DL so there is no get ready. I can do the sleight perfectly, it's sounds like I just really need to work on overall performance and misdirection etc. Thats the bit that is c*** (not the best) it seems.

I've just got annoyed with DL's lately, hence the big post. No one see's my invisible pass, ever, but as soon as I go for a DL it's like they're just waiting for me to lift two.

Vernons lift is the one i use. And if you study the Ganson book on Vernon, it gives you all the misdirection tips for the get ready,

(which assuming you have the deck in your left hand, is just pushing the top card over to the right with your left thumb...so it rides over the finger tips.... whilst they are looking at, and showing the chosen card you then place the chosen card directly on top of this card, retaining a break under the double, then turn them over as one, keeping the left edge of the double in contact with the rest of the deck, keeping them square)

Thats what i do, and have done for oooooo 38 years.

russpie wrote:Another point i'd make is when I'm placing a card into their hand to transpose with one I'm holding is to give me a reason to place my card onto the top of the deck to free up my other hand in a gesture of what I want them to do with theirs (if that makes sense). Basically think of a reason you would naturally put it on top, in this case to gesture to them. This way the brain doesn't remember the point at which you put the card anywhere near the deck.

I'm sure it was the 'Brownster' who came up with that piece of advice but I could be wrong.

Russ

Indeed it is nothing new, but if your talking of Brown, then I will take a bet he got it from Nyman who explicitly mentions this form of misdirection on 'get nyman'. As far as I know, it's the best way of doing it- I even clocked Derren doing it at engima (although, not with cards).
Essentially, he does the dl to show the required card and then in a moment of confusion he turns it back over and simultaneously demonstrating and asking: 'Sorry, just put your hand out for me' immediatley pulling the card off the top and bingo. Try it, it sounds simple, but the better solutions always are.

Serendipity wrote:Without meaning to throw a further spanner in the works, I couldn't disagree more with this "Wait five years" nonsense.

I am a professional magician, who performs both close up and small stage to very favorable reviews, and a sell out show award at last year's Edinburgh fringe.

From the day you pick up a deck of cards to the day you start charging for bookings is a long & tiresome journey. I would say that the average person with a full time job, partner, active social life & other distractions would need 5 years to learn not only the sleights but also putting them into structured routines, knowing what to say & do at the right time, marketing yourself & building up a performance portfolio if you like. In this I mean performing for as many different types of audiences, only this will go anywhere near preparing you for the occurences when you're dealing with an audience.

Serendipity, I'm not knocking your professionalism or hard work but if people jump into things like this unprepared then they're more likely to fall & not bother trying again.

Russ

SamGurney wrote:if your talking of Brown, then I will take a bet he got it from Nyman who explicitly mentions this form of misdirection on 'get nyman'.

That's the one, it's on Get Nyman.

So many dvds, so little brain capacity.

Russ

wow im surprised that your actually still having problems with your DL.

im one of the first to admit mine was awful when i started but after months of practice on the DL and my misdirection i was able to get it down to a T.

In the mean time i rearrange all the tricks to use the invisible pass instead untill i mastered the DL.

lastly i suggest you learn the 2 card monte it will help you with timing and misdirection if your doing it right.

hope turning pro and getting paid for gigs works out for you.

I have to say that the DL is the most difficult move in card magic. The only reason I say this is because most DL I see are horrible. The actions always seem to say "Watch me while I badly turn over these cards in the most unatural way possible and oh let me draw your attention to the fact that I'm doing this" And they (the magicians) always seem surprised that when they finally look back at the spectator only to realize they failed. The correction would be never to look BACK at your audience. You should have never looked away.

The best advice I've ever gotten was, "Just turn the bloody things over" So many focus on turning the two as one and making it look like one, as well you should. But what you really should be concentrating on is when you turn over one card. What else are you doing at the time. Are you focusing on turning that card over? No of course not its second nature and no big deal. So the same should be done with the DL. And nobody will pick it up.

I never thought I used a get ready move. Until I started teaching my version to somebody and realized I did. Most of the time I keep a deck in motion, and its only when I am squaring the cards do I flip them over. I never even really think about it just sort of happens.

vietnam37 wrote:I get annoyed now when I see an amazing effect, then try to learn it and then discover yet again it's filled with DL's.

by no means am i an expert, and have only been doing magic for about 6 months, but one thing I need to remind myself of is that before I knew how tricks were done I was amazed, just as the layperson is when you do them.

The fact that you have seen an amazing effect and not noticed that it was filled with DL's before you started to learn it shows how it's never noticed during performance!

I can only talk from personal experience but the DL was accidentally exposed to me because there wasn't any misdirection- it was performed well technically, but as a 'lay spectator', there was no logic in *card gets turned over, card gets turned back over and changes when it's turned over again..
On the other hand- I STILL miss the top change when performed with the approproate combination of misdirection and technical ability.
So, it is neither being very technically good at it or just pure misdirection but a combination of the two.
Excellently executed slight of hand is not a replacement for lack of misdirection, misdirection is not a replacement for excecuting slight of hand cleanly and naturally.

When I was a laymen, the thing that tipped me off to potential methods behind effects that I saw (was a huge fan as a kid) was when I saw things happen, that didn't make sense taking place.

Now I know that sounds strange, being that we are talking about creating moments of magic, but what I am talking about, are actions that inspired questions in my mind before the conclusion of the effect occured.

So, man takes card, turns it over to show what it is, says "watch as it changes" then turns it over again to hide it, before making it change.

If you tell the audience something, they will expect it to happen.

Instead, man takes card, turns it over to show what it is, picks it up, "ooh actually can you hold your hand out like this" card goes back onto deck face down, person holds out hand, card gets put onto their hand, "and we'll see if we can get it to change"

In this instance, the reason behind it being turned face down was because you had to show them how to hold thier hand. In their mind, you had begun to give them the card face up, which tells their mind's eye that you could, in the previous, you told them what was going to happen, then did something you had to, otherwise you had no other reason to do it.

Then try the Top Change or the Bottom Change.
And there's always that 'little used' sleight (these days) The Mexican Turnover.

Ask around if anyone has Pat Page On Misdirection.
Check the last item in this booklet, 'The Unknown Soldier's Card Trick & see how PP uses the Top Change.

I have always advocated 'that if a move or sleight is not working for you, or is frustrating you after many attempts & much rehearsal' then change it - find something that does work for You.

Allen Tipton

Always felt the Mexican Turnover was just a bit weird. I think, and this could just be magician's guilt, that in order to make it work you need to sell the idea that it's easier for you to do the MT than to just pick the card up and turn it over. I would have the card in my right hand, put my left hand an inch or so to the left of the tabled card. I'd then push the tabled card towards my left hand using the card in my right hand - this card goes under and the turnover takes place. It's such a small detail, but the action of pushing the card first, and then turning it over seems to sell how awkward turning the card over directly would have been. With this in mind it makes more sense doing it on a polished surface, rather than a table cloth.

Much like the DL, if you need to use it, then you need to use the same process whenever you turn over a tabled card.

ok not a cardie, quite happy to use my stripper deck but to use a coin analogy it should go something like this.
1) the get ready, cover this by asking if they have a good memmory becuase yours is lowsey.
2)show the card and ask them to hold out there hand, this is the missdirection for the turn over move.
3) place card on pack while you reposition there hand, this is logical as your hands are full.
4) take the yop card off.

if your returning the card to the deck then option 2 would be to ask if there ready to remember there card and to concentrate on there card in there mind on a projector screen as you turn it back over.

simples.

I'd forgtten the Stripper Deck. My favourite trick deck in my youth!
AND the DL is a doddle with this deck.
Their card, reversed & second from top.
Just lift from side and instant DL

Allen Tipton

lukeclough wrote:

vietnam37 wrote:I get annoyed now when I see an amazing effect, then try to learn it and then discover yet again it's filled with DL's.

by no means am i an expert, and have only been doing magic for about 6 months, but one thing I need to remind myself of is that before I knew how tricks were done I was amazed, just as the layperson is when you do them.

The fact that you have seen an amazing effect and not noticed that it was filled with DL's before you started to learn it shows how it's never noticed during performance!

Brilliant post. I've sold more magic in my day then you would think possible. I would demo an effect, the purchaser would stand there mouth agape drooling over what they just saw, (not because I'm that good but because I know how to sell stuff). It always amazed me how many people, magicians included would come back three days later telling me how nobody is going to be fooled by the effect and want thier money back.

My response was always, have you practiced it enough to perform it, not just show the trick but perform the trick? B) Have you actually shown anybody the trick? And lastly, it fooled the heck out of you otherwise you would never have purchased the thing...now quit breathing my air!