talkmagic.co.uk

Development costs depend on the product and can vary.

I can only comment on the type of thing I do.

Others may have other experience.

x

and also, the bottom line is...its up to the creator how much to sell it for...well, if done privately that is...

if you make a deal with a shop - then it all changes...

Good magic stuff is expensive for the same general reasons that good academic books are expensive. (To name two things I'm familiar with and have spent embarrassing amounts of money on.)

They take a long time and a lot of hard work to create.
They're relatively expensive to produce.
They have a very limited customer base.

The last two work together. The producer can't take advantage of mass production and economies of scale.

If you think magic is expensive in the UK at the mo, wait till the VAT goes up in January 2011. It'll be even more expensive.

Anyhoo magic isn't too expensive. It's just people buy magic on a whim sometimes, then regret what they buy.

Wow... lots of great justification going on here. When I was younger the explanation was always, "You have to pay for the secret, not just the gimmick". Sadly, they never reduced the price for those that knew the method

Magic is bloody hell to develop regardless the size or shape of things; time, materials, cash, and literal blood, sweat & tears (and frequent arguments with partners sometimes )

Just recently I found someone illegally manufacturing Shadow Vision and a few other pieces Kenny and I developed. This piece has some very special "sentimental" value to me as well as professional interests; it was built (in part) around my step-daughter (and our secretary @ the shop) so I'm a bit protective of it. However, no one to my knowledge, was ever given manufacturing rights to the effects we developed at CI prior to Ken's death. In theory the only three people that may have such permission would be Jouqin Ayala, Bill Smith and John Gaughan in that they were all quite close to Kenny.

The point being something that others have stated elsewhere on this topic; piracy is so prevalent now days that we must charge exceptionally high prices in order to cover loss. It's highly inconvenient for many of us in that few have that level of "spare cash" for making on-going investments. I have found that the majority of the innovators and writers however, are more than willing to work with folks that have honest issues... I do emphasize however that this is not always the case, nor am I suggesting that you start hitting them up just because I've made this comment (they get hit-up constantly)... put yourself in their position and the realization that we depend upon that income, some of us far more than others.

Ok... before it's brought up... I view piracy and bootlegging as being things like Torrent/File Share exchange sites and situations like the eBay cheap copy selling -- people that have cut the creator and merchant out of the loop and profit from the creation without paying for the privilege. On the other hand, I do not believe that the loaning of or swapping of material on a casual AND LIMITED basis, is wrong. For as long as I've been involved in magic the sharing of books and even props has been a constant. Too, the majority of my early year studies came from books my mother got for me through the city library. I've seen many private book collections go to the public library over the years which makes our "secrets" accessible to all that want to check them out...but then you can do the same via the Library of Congress as well as the U.S. Patent office, so let's stay off all the accusations and finger pointing and stay real.

Oh! I should also point out that the majority of those who own large scaled illusions rent and lease them on a regular basis, frequently to NON-MAGICIANS -- dance companies and theme park producers who employ local high school and college students for the summer as "actors" vs. a specialist that would cost them significantly more when it comes to cash layout each season.

I guess the bottom line is, there are many reasons why (how we can justify) magic is so expensive but one of the bigger ones centers on keeping certain information as exclusive as possible; accessible to the working professionals vs. the "i just want to know how it works" egos out there. It's nice to not know "it all" believe it or not; it let's you enjoy that hint of mystery and amazement you knew long before your journey started down this path.

I do agree with Robbie as with many of you who have posted on this one.

Producing and creating specialist equipment (and that's what it is, highly specialized equipment and tools) takes a massive amount of research, tears, heartache and all the other emotions.

It also calls on the need to become a specialist in very specific and random areas. For example, stripping good quality chrome calls for reverse electroplating, or flawless enameling calls for a skill which takes a lot of practice to get right. Printing books to go with an effect takes weeks of proof reading, a good eye and many proof copies etc....the list goes on.

You are not just buying a product, you are also buying the creators time, energies, thinking, costs, trials and errors, sleepless nights etc. and as Craig pointed out, the secret.

The unethical rip off merchants are the guys to avoid. Simply copying a product which takes their fancy doesn't allow for them to experience the pitfalls and knock backs which ultimately make a good quality, tested product, and can, in some instances - like the knock off CSI kit sold from China, be dangerous!

Craig Browning wrote:Wow... lots of great justification going on here. When I was younger the explanation was always, "You have to pay for the secret, not just the gimmick". Sadly, they never reduced the price for those that knew the method

Magic is bloody hell to develop regardless the size or shape of things; time, materials, cash, and literal blood, sweat & tears (and frequent arguments with partners sometimes )

Just recently I found someone illegally manufacturing Shadow Vision and a few other pieces Kenny and I developed. This piece has some very special "sentimental" value to me as well as professional interests; it was built (in part) around my step-daughter (and our secretary @ the shop) so I'm a bit protective of it. However, no one to my knowledge, was ever given manufacturing rights to the effects we developed at CI prior to Ken's death. In theory the only three people that may have such permission would be Jouqin Ayala, Bill Smith and John Gaughan in that they were all quite close to Kenny.

The point being something that others have stated elsewhere on this topic; piracy is so prevalent now days that we must charge exceptionally high prices in order to cover loss. It's highly inconvenient for many of us in that few have that level of "spare cash" for making on-going investments. I have found that the majority of the innovators and writers however, are more than willing to work with folks that have honest issues... I do emphasize however that this is not always the case, nor am I suggesting that you start hitting them up just because I've made this comment (they get hit-up constantly)... put yourself in their position and the realization that we depend upon that income, some of us far more than others.

Ok... before it's brought up... I view piracy and bootlegging as being things like Torrent/File Share exchange sites and situations like the eBay cheap copy selling -- people that have cut the creator and merchant out of the loop and profit from the creation without paying for the privilege. On the other hand, I do not believe that the loaning of or swapping of material on a casual AND LIMITED basis, is wrong. For as long as I've been involved in magic the sharing of books and even props has been a constant. Too, the majority of my early year studies came from books my mother got for me through the city library. I've seen many private book collections go to the public library over the years which makes our "secrets" accessible to all that want to check them out...but then you can do the same via the Library of Congress as well as the U.S. Patent office, so let's stay off all the accusations and finger pointing and stay real.

Oh! I should also point out that the majority of those who own large scaled illusions rent and lease them on a regular basis, frequently to NON-MAGICIANS -- dance companies and theme park producers who employ local high school and college students for the summer as "actors" vs. a specialist that would cost them significantly more when it comes to cash layout each season.

I guess the bottom line is, there are many reasons why (how we can justify) magic is so expensive but one of the bigger ones centers on keeping certain information as exclusive as possible; accessible to the working professionals vs. the "i just want to know how it works" egos out there. It's nice to not know "it all" believe it or not; it let's you enjoy that hint of mystery and amazement you knew long before your journey started down this path.

Thanks for this.Really good points here.

Some years ago I worked in the toy industry and piracy is rife their too. I worked for a respectable company (aside from when they went spectaularly bust and the MD and FD spent some time as closely guarded guests of her majesty but thats another story) and we had to pay for development work or buy a fully developed idea, usually from the USA. This involved royalyes to the inventor based on the numers we sold.

We also had the expense of ensuring that CE marking was obtained and that the toy was fully safety tested and complied with all UK and EU regulations. We then had the expense of attending the annual toy fair at Earls Court, promoting the toy to the major retailers and maintaining a team of salesmen.

And 5 minutes after we launched a new product you could buy a knock off in the local market for a fraction of the price we had to charge to make a respectable profit.

The more ethically you traded the more you got hit by the pirates.

So far as I am concerned magic is in the same league. I have come to respect the work done by the ethical dealers, and we have many of them, who bring us the ideas of the tortured souls who think up this stuff. They put together the props and the instructions and they sell them to make a living.

It makes me pig sick to see all of that hard responsible and respectable work rubbished by people without the brains or the inclination to do something constructive themselves and who just steal intellectual property and make a quick buck out of it.

This may be a bit of a rant but I am passionately anti pirate to the point where I would hang the lot of them*

*[size=9]Only joking really, I would just have them flogged to within an inch of their lives!![/size]

The toy company story reminded me of something; there is not an industry out there in which piracy isn't a part. Major corporations, movie & Tv studios, etc. all have some very elaborate security arrangements that protect concepts, scripts, product discussions and spec development, etc. You might say that the world of espionage is still alive and well when it comes to this arena