talkmagic.co.uk

Let us presume for a moment that I don't perform at all (I do), lets presume I never do.

So what?

Lenoir and Lawrence are deliberately trying to attack me, and I don't see this as bad because I am bipolar, I think attacking anyone souly for the sake of hurting them is bad. Its my definition of evil and always has been.

Critism is always fine. If you see me perform an effect badly then please say so and how it could be done better. If not then please don't be cruel.



Tom
xx

Eshly wrote:So what?

I can't (and won't) speak for lawrence and lenoir - or anyone else, but I guess the big problem that people are having is that you get a ton of advice (more than any other member here) yet time and time again you decide not to use it because you don't feel the advice is good enough

If you was to follow it, you'd realise that the advice you're getting is right. Which is probably why people think you don't perform, because you'd realise this kind of thing if you did

But again, I can't talk for anyone but me. And the vast majority of members here know much more than I do so I might be wrong here

It's all about control,
somethings yes they can be examined,
cards, coins, etc...
but this takes time if you have to have everything examined at the start, usually you can let them shuffle the cards, etc... for me sometimes that doesn't happen until the middle of the set, i'll do one effect then say, here shuffle these...

other things they can't be examined and that's fine too, you just have to control what the spectators are doing - you see Copperfield and the large scale illusionists (Harary!!) - they will invite people on stage, but they will say 'stand here, is this solid?' but they won't say, 'come round the back and look at this for me?' so they control what gets examined. it's the same if you put a gimmicked coin in someone's hand - you can place it there all day, if you act as if it's normal - if they start to take a closer look, you take it back and continue with what you were doing.

I'm sure you perform a little, but once you perform more, you'll get a feel for what works, how to direct attention away from something that can't be examined, if you need to.

kolm wrote:

Eshly wrote:So what?

I can't (and won't) speak for lawrence and lenoir - or anyone else, but I guess the big problem that people are having is that you get a ton of advice (more than any other member here) yet time and time again you decide not to use it because you don't feel the advice is good enough

If you was to follow it, you'd realise that the advice you're getting is right. Which is probably why people think you don't perform, because you'd realise this kind of thing if you did

agreed - its the same pattern all the time, and though some of it is our responsibility - some is also tom's...

and as i've said countless times before, self-educate, and as all the advice he's been given by lots of well-meaning people, if that isn't good enough - why post in the first place? what's going to be different this/next time?

until tom realises, or rather, accepts that he has to adapt his behaviour - all of his threads will either get ignored, or locked...

he has to accept that the reason why people get angry with him is that they care about mentalism too...and though differences of opinion are bound to happen - its the "insistance" of it all that bugs the hell out of me...

and the fact he doesn't work things out for himself, or research beyond derren...

so there you go...tom can kick up as many counter-arguments as he likes, that the fact of the matter...going on the evidence we have, the experience we have of him via this forum - history repeats itself, he asks a question, people give him advice...its not good enough, or not x,y,z...

if he doesnt want to settle for the answers given which again, is fair enough...he has to toddle off and work it out for himself...

kolm wrote:

Eshly wrote:So what?

I can't (and won't) speak for lawrence and lenoir - or anyone else, but I guess the big problem that people are having is that you get a ton of advice (more than any other member here) yet time and time again you decide not to use it because you don't feel the advice is good enough

If you was to follow it, you'd realise that the advice you're getting is right. Which is probably why people think you don't perform, because you'd realise this kind of thing if you did

But again, I can't talk for anyone but me. And the vast majority of members here know much more than I do so I might be wrong here

But I DO take LOTS of advice from many members on a daily basis. Just today Harris "helped me learn how to find" a method which I am perfectly happy with for Q&A.

I do take advice, for example I used to think a s***i was not deceptive enough, so I used envelopes and so on. Now however I have learnt that this is not the case, so I just use a bit of card and the gimmick.




The reason people think me so picky and so ignorant is because you only see the things which I DO NOT know. I don't come on here and post all the improvements I've made to the effects I perform.

You only see the unknowlageable side of me, not the knowledgable side. I suppose I need to actually SEE you to prove the point. :/


Tom
xx


P.S
When I say the word "examinable" I mean things which can be held and used by the spectator, not things which can be put under super-close examination.

Iain, I challenge you to find a single topic I have made where I've asked a question and not taken someones advice. I always have, maybe not yours, but I always have.

Eshly wrote:I don't come on here and post all the improvements I've made to the effects I perform.

I think that may be the biggest part of the problem. You take (or ignore) from people who give freely, but never give anything in return.

Eshly wrote:Iain, I challenge you to find a single topic I have made where I've asked a question and not taken someones advice. I always have, maybe not yours, but I always have.

i've never seen you take anyone's advice - i couldnt give a monkeys if its mine or not

never seen you take bob cassidy's advice, nor greg arce's or any of the others...

Mr_Grue wrote:

Eshly wrote:I don't come on here and post all the improvements I've made to the effects I perform.

I think that may be the biggest part of the problem. You take (or ignore) from people who give freely, but never give anything in return.

Ohh... emm... I didn't see that coming.

I suppose I rarely post advice because I still consider myself to be new to this. Though I did help a person just today over PM who wanted me to tell him my sublties for On the Mark (i'd performed for him at the shop).

How do you want me to "return" the favour? :s

tidy up a bit? do some hoovering...make cups of coffee?

Eshly wrote :-

But I DO take LOTS of advice from many members on a daily basis. Just today Harris "helped me learn how to find" a method which I am perfectly happy with for Q&A.

Ha ! Another satisfied customer lolol...

To be fair Esh, you were skeptical of what I was asking you to do, and repeatedly asked for me to just 'tell you'.

But.

Hopefully now you have had to look, try and search, maybe you understand the working and method, rather than just be told it and not value it.

You have put the work and time in to find it, trial it (although pushed :p), maybe you value it more for that reason.

On the other hand you do come across as someone who uses a lot of others time and you DO get a lot more support that most. Probably (IMO) not because of your diagnosis but due to the fact you keep getting knocked down and still come back again and again.

You do need to sometimes just try whats being suggested. You get given gold by some peeps yet you throw it in the trash like waste paper.

Evie x

i think that sums it up y'know....

"JUST TELL ME..."

and not having to actually TRY IT...

just tell me, i'll visualise it - and if in that visualisation process i deem it not worthy, or not workable...then i'll dismiss it...DESPITE others who have used it...

basically - get off your @rse and buck your ideas up...

I suspect (maybe not in Eshly's case, I don't know) that a lot of the need/desire for things to be examinable has come from young people (don't want to say kids, because they seem to get defensive when they're called that ) doing tricks for their friends at school.

In this context, people will just grab a coin or a deck of cards, which makes using um-examinable gimmicks almost impossible (especially since you can't have the necessary audience management skills at that age, that can only come with experience).

I suspect this has been picked up by the suppliers who target this lot (people like E) and then suddenly become part of advertising.

Eshly wrote:I suppose I rarely post advice because I still consider myself to be new to this.

That doesn't stop me :p
Sometimes fresh ideas is what's needed. Or in my case, bad ideas for people to disprove :p

When I say the word "examinable" I mean things which can be held and used by the spectator, not things which can be put under super-close examination.

You'll have to trust me on this one (or try it for yourself) - you can get away with a hell of a lot. There's an effect I love which I see time and time again which does exactly which you say can't be done. Hell, it was performed to me and even I didn't notice the gimmick which is very obvious, yet I still handled it freely and didn't notice a thing. All because the magician controlled me (the spectator) perfectly

:: oh dear ::