talkmagic.co.uk

Before I reveal part (or perhaps all, if I like you) of my method for having two spectators (apparently) think of the same card, I'd be interested in you guys' opinions of how this could be done?
I don't want to tell you anything yet, as it may cloud your creativity. I want to hear some novel concepts and original thoughts before I suggest how it may (can) be done.

Some kind of method similar to the trick "do as I do" ... or forcing a card ... or a "OW" deck? ... THINKING of the same card though, that's some crazy mind bending stuff going on right there ...

Dan

without causing any disruptions to the forum it seems like you are asking for methods to other alternatives causing other magicians to reveal there secrets. somethin that they wouldnt want to do or intend to. some secrets might be theres but other secrets are learnt from other magicians and do not want to infringe there methods

if you want to reveal your method then thats fine but please respect other peoples methods secret wise but also research if your method is very close to someone elses as well

also could be the case that you dont have a method for the effect your fishing for answers

please do not take offence to this i mean none im just pointing out what other people might apear to gain from your request

I dont see the problem with people divulging their own methods. I enjoy a challenge in magic (we could start a competition like this actually-it would be great fun ).

I get the feeling that this is a genuine attempt at a magic discussion rather than 'fishing' but I do admit I and others probably don't want to discuss methods too openly on the public part of the forum.

That being said, are you talking about an A.C.A.A.N. using multiple spectators, or something where both spectators think of the same card?

For one I use a force and duel reality, for the other I use a psychological force and an 'out'.

That's all I'm really comfortable saying at this point.

If I wanted them to think of the same card I'd use *** **** or ******* ******

Asterisks with no letters because you've been here for five minutes and are fishing for methods. So it's only really a hint, if you know the methods

Well, I'm glad that evidently some folks realise this is a possibility. No, I'm not exactly fishing for methods, but I have several ways to do this, and wonder if some creative thought can develop any new concepts.
OK, there is a simple formula - force both "thoughts".
Then there is another method: force one "thought" whilst allowing the other spectator a free choice..
Or, could you allow both spectators a free choice of card, whilst still choosing the same card?
He he, sorry, I know I've only just joined this forum, but there don't seem to be many discussions about presentation or theatricality, which I'd be happy to contribute to. It seems folks here are mainly concerned with effects and technical stuff. If that's the case, then I guess I'll just go ahead and talk about those things that interest me in terms of magical effects.
Of course, I'm a firm believer that difficult manipulations and complicated calculations are for the experienced magician. Actually you need to know how to present magic before you can get too clever. The brain isn't capable of managing too many new things at once. Familiar things come easy, just like playing a musical instrument - but it's important to become familiar with your moves and calculations.
So, anyone have a concept of how to simply "force" two identical thoughts? Now that is really not too much of an ask, is it?

This is a very similar trick to the old mental medium acts of yesteryear that attracted large theatre audiences and used to perform similar routines with other objects rather than using a pack of playing cards. The trick itself is easy to do but wouldn't stand up to any public scrutiny at all without a lot of mysticism and spiritualist mumbo jumbo laid on thick over the top to act as a misdirection away from a laughably easy method.

Pirate Potty wrote:So, anyone have a concept of how to simply "force" two identical thoughts? Now that is really not too much of an ask, is it?

Someone will soon point you toward 202 ways of doing this.

I'd just OW it, or R&S it, but then I would.

Pirate Potty wrote:Well, I'm glad that evidently some folks realise this is a possibility. No, I'm not exactly fishing for methods, but I have several ways to do this, and wonder if some creative thought can develop any new concepts.
OK, there is a simple formula - force both "thoughts".
Then there is another method: force one "thought" whilst allowing the other spectator a free choice..
Or, could you allow both spectators a free choice of card, whilst still choosing the same card?
He he, sorry, I know I've only just joined this forum, but there don't seem to be many discussions about presentation or theatricality, which I'd be happy to contribute to. It seems folks here are mainly concerned with effects and technical stuff. If that's the case, then I guess I'll just go ahead and talk about those things that interest me in terms of magical effects.
Of course, I'm a firm believer that difficult manipulations and complicated calculations are for the experienced magician. Actually you need to know how to present magic before you can get too clever. The brain isn't capable of managing too many new things at once. Familiar things come easy, just like playing a musical instrument - but it's important to become familiar with your moves and calculations.
So, anyone have a concept of how to simply "force" two identical thoughts? Now that is really not too much of an ask, is it?

Can I suggest you use the search facility if you want information on performance and presentation.

If you have questions about this subject or feel there is a point that would be a good discussion point start a thread. That is the point of a forum, you get out what you put in. I look forward to your posts about performance, there are plenty of people on here with huge amounts of experience who I am sure will offer advice.

I've no idea why some people are being so prickly to a new member of the forum.

I absolutely agree that, if you tell your method first, you often don't get as many ideas. However, I think it's not too surprising that people are reluctant to offer much in an open forum, to a newcomer. Sometimes you have to build up to these things on forums.

If there is only one free choice involved, the performer will usually have to find out what it is. Pretty tough, if the participant is genuinely only thinking of a card! The performer can pre-show or use some method such as markings, to get the information live. With careful use of language, you can change what actually happened (although some say you should always be up-front about PS work, you don't have to say everything that happened!).

Allowing two spectators a free choice of card can work, especially with some priming, such as Docc Hilford's wordless force (Derren Brown wrote up much the same thing in Pure Effect). Arguably, it's not a free choice at all, if you are limiting the choices or guiding them to a particular card. It won't be 100% certain, though.

Pirate Potty wrote:He he, sorry, I know I've only just joined this forum, but there don't seem to be many discussions about presentation or theatricality, which I'd be happy to contribute to. It seems folks here are mainly concerned with effects and technical stuff. If that's the case, then I guess I'll just go ahead and talk about those things that interest me in terms of magical effects.

It's not at all surprising that forums tend to focus on technical stuff and new tricks.

First, many magicians enjoy gathering new effects and the latest method for doing X (even if there are already half a dozen better methods that have been around for decades). Many (most?) magicians are always on the lookout for an improved way of doing things. No gimmicks, no set-up, can be done with a borrowed deck, impromptu, no magnets, no R&S, no threads, etc.. How many ACAAN tricks are there, with more on the way (and a book on the subject too)? Centre tears, peek wallets, card to wallet, card through window, torn and restored card, fake coin sets, they keep coming. It's part of the condition of being a magician, like CUPS.

Second, any magician worth their salt will appreciate the need to make an effect their own. They also know that performance is very important, more so than the method (but my first point might still apply to them). We are exhorted to be unique, to make tricks our own, ideally creating our own material from scratch, to develop our performing personas and to be ourselves.

There are books on the subject, but relatively few. This could reflect a lack of interest in magicians (see point one), or it could also be that, once the points have been made, there's simply no reason to rehash them again and again.

Largely, talking about presentation (no "s" at the end) tends to end up duplicating some well-worn points, summarised by me above. The subject is important, but perhaps there's not a lot new to say. Especially when there are new tricks to learn!

Also, chatting about presentations may well be less useful (and certainly less interesting) to many than new effects. If you're going to have to make the trick personal to you, someone else's way of doing the trick could even be counter-productive. It's exactly the same as the reason you gave for not sharing your method up-front.

Consider this more of a devil's advocate post. I am not entirely sure I believe everything I have just written!

Pirate Potty wrote:Of course, I'm a firm believer that difficult manipulations and complicated calculations are for the experienced magician. So, anyone have a concept of how to simply "force" two identical thoughts? Now that is really not too much of an ask, is it?

I'm not picking on you. I just want to point out that experienced magicians will usually stay away from 'difficult manipulations or calculations. The only time those of experience resort to such tactics is when they are trying to sell books/dvd's to other magi. The real work is kept as simple as possible so one could concentrate on presentation.

Secondly, all your answer's about forcing identical thoughts on two or more spectators can be found ad-nausium in countless books on forcing and or mentalism.

I like using my perdition watch for this effect.

I simply force the card on the first spectator and show the second spectator the watch to count down how long it takes him to get the impression.

Even though the second spectator sees the card he has no way of knowing how the first spectator is thinking of it. So it works well on both of them.

To the audience one guy is reading the other ones mind with me just there to facilitate.

This is the kind of thing I'm presently finding out is most appreciated by my audiences and where I think mentalism is headed.

jdmagic357 wrote:This is the kind of thing I'm presently finding out is most appreciated by my audiences and where I think mentalism is headed.

What do you mean by this being where you think mentalism is headed - there's nothing new there?

grant_m23 wrote:

jdmagic357 wrote:This is the kind of thing I'm presently finding out is most appreciated by my audiences and where I think mentalism is headed.

What do you mean by this being where you think mentalism is headed - there's nothing new there?

What's new is the performer taking on a more human role. I have already discussed this in other threads, you can find more info in them.