talkmagic.co.uk

What claims do you make about your abilities, if any?

For me, it varies...I usually claim nothing, or focus on 'allowing the spectators to use their natural intuition for a short time' for things like OOTW. I had a great story I made up about how I got some of my powers, which was simultaneously comedic and mysterious, but I've never used it in the belief that it would be hypocritical of me to shun psychic ability and yet still claim I have supernatural powers...and also, I would hate the idea of anybody being converted from scepticism or buying loads of unhelpful books etc. because of my false explanations!

Obviously this question is more suited to mentalists than magicians, but it applies to both in some areas.

Look, my advice is this and then I promise you won't hear from me again:

You're a bloody magician/mentalist. Your job is to lie. So if you're going to lie, just bloody lie and stop having a crisis over it. If you have a problem with fooling people, stop being a magician. Go and play snooker or climb Mount Everest or become a juggler.

This is not aimed at laurence whatsoever, it's just that every so often this topic spreads through the forum like wild fire (usually because someone dares to say something about being psychic) and all the new members have some kind of crisis.

themagicwand wrote:Look, my advice is this and then I promise you won't hear from me again:

You're a bloody magician/mentalist. Your job is to lie. So if you're going to lie, just bloody lie and stop having a crisis over it. If you have a problem with fooling people, stop being a magician. Go and play snooker or climb Mount Everest or become a juggler.

This is not aimed at laurence whatsoever, it's just that every so often this topic spreads through the forum like wild fire (usually because someone dares to say something about being psychic) and all the new members have some kind of crisis.

Hear, hear.

Magician - A person who performs magic tricks for entertainmen
Trick - Deceive or outwit (someone) by being cunning or skillful.

Our trade is lies, I too used to be concerned about this but as Derren Brown always says - I am always honest about my dishonesty.

themagicwand wrote:You're a bloody magician/mentalist. Your job is to lie. So if you're going to lie, just bloody lie and stop having a crisis over it. If you have a problem with fooling people, stop being a magician. Go and play snooker or climb Mount Everest or become a juggler.

Thanks for your input, but the thread was asking people what they claimed; not shunning any particular presentational style.

I think Paul's point is - it doesn't matter.

I just entertain and let the audience draw their conclusions, my presentation of different effects vary enough to make it unclear as to whether I am psychic. It is worth bearing in mind to the audience this rarely matters either, I have heard countless people state "psychics are just cold reading" and just as many state "Derren Brown is psychic he just doesn't know/want to admit to it".

A_n_t wrote:I think Paul's point is - it doesn't matter.

I just entertain and let the audience draw their conclusions, my presentation of different effects vary enough to make it unclear as to whether I am psychic. It is worth bearing in mind to the audience this rarely matters either, I have heard countless people state "psychics are just cold reading" and just as many state "Derren Brown is psychic he just doesn't know/want to admit to it".

Ah, okay - sorry for the misunderstanding

No problem, it is a common question.

I think people wrestle with morality with magic/mentalism more than anything else because at the core - you are lying.

The difference is that unlike any other artform/entertainment/service, people expect you to lie.

Unless you sell secondhand cars or are a lawyer [sic].

Actually I retract that, acting is lying too but for some reason this does not get the same bad press.

If it helps you to sleep at night act as if you are a conniving, underhanded, deceptive manipulator for the sake of entertainment, that way you are "just acting" and actually none of those things.

I say as little as possible, and whatever is needed to get the job done. It is my job to entertain, not dictate people's beliefs. If they want to believe I am a great magician, fine. If they want to believe that I am psychic, fine too. I am neither. I am just a con man with a thick neck. But that lacks a certain gravitas.

Funny. . . for most of the past century or so holding to a defined claim has always been one of the primary "rules" of doing successful Mentalism. . . granted, the past decade or so has taken pride in tossing out the older etiquette and standards, seeing Mentalism as being nothing but another approach to doing TRICKS which a huge number left pondering "Why can't I get the kind of reaction that guy gets?"

If you are doing Seance performances and suddenly move into a McDonald's Ace routine I'm betting you'll loose your audience alongside your credibility; Bob Cassidy has pointed out how we are likewise affected in this negative light when we try to do too much and not focus on one or two specific abilities. For those working the Psychic angle that means holding to the common understanding as to what Telepathy, Clairvoyance, etc. actually mean and thus, understanding why a blindfolded Telepath can't tell you how much change is in your pocket in that such is what Clairvoyants would do. . . they see what is unseen or hidden while a telepath works with what is known and transmitted.

If you work from the Intellectual "Expert" mode, such as Subliminal Communications you can run a wide gambit of things that include Poker Tells, FACS & NLP type explanations, etc. A Language Expert on the other hand would be showing the audience how words, colors, shapes, sounds, etc. manipulate us without our realizing it and in some instances, literally rob us of our Free Will. . . a theme far spookier than any psychic/occult type bit I've ever witnessed. But, if my claim is Linguistics and I want to do certain Card Effects, I damn well better have a logical and viable means by which to get there while keeping with that theme, other wise I and all the claims made in my program, loose credibility. . . we, as Mentalists, loose the one key advantage that is part and parcel "ours" -- the ability to illicit an investment of belief from our audience. This is what separates mentalism from it's evil cousin, magic; magic functions by way of agreement, the public knows we are tricking them. Mentalism on the other hand is not supposed to be presented in such a manner though (unfortunately) there's a present day trend to do so and without realizing it, neuter ourselves as performers.

Study the older material, pay attention to the older guys in our world right now and what most of them are echoing when it comes to this sort of thing.

Craig, I know what you are saying. I would never mix serious mentalism with magic.
I think guys stretch credibility when they do silly metal bends, then expect people to believe their mind-reading. Your demonstrations must be consistent. I love doing memory demonstrations, and I can make them fit in with hypnotism. It can be a push to make them fit with mentalism, and a stretch too far to mix them with readings. I don't make any claims (or deny any claims) but I keep an internal logic.

A_n_t wrote:I think Paul's point is - it doesn't matter.

I just entertain and let the audience draw their conclusions, my presentation of different effects vary enough to make it unclear as to whether I am psychic. It is worth bearing in mind to the audience this rarely matters either, I have heard countless people state "psychics are just cold reading" and just as many state "Derren Brown is psychic he just doesn't know/want to admit to it".

If the amount of people making the first claim was countless, How would you know that there was the same number of people making the second??

Let people believe what they choose to believe, you're an entertainer and it's not your job to convert someone one way or an other.

I think some kind of backstory is important when you're presenting mentalism, it makes it more real. For me, I claim that I read minds. For me that's more natural ad I've got a bit of a new agey, pagan background and am able to incorporate that into what I do. I don't really know anything about NLP and very little about psychology so could easily get tripped up if using those as an explaination.

It doen't matter really how you choose to explain what you do, the important thing is making it believable.

TonyB wrote:Craig, I know what you are saying. I would never mix serious mentalism with magic.
I think guys stretch credibility when they do silly metal bends, then expect people to believe their mind-reading. Your demonstrations must be consistent. I love doing memory demonstrations, and I can make them fit in with hypnotism. It can be a push to make them fit with mentalism, and a stretch too far to mix them with readings. I don't make any claims (or deny any claims) but I keep an internal logic.

You're right on mark there, Tony.

Ormond McGill used to do about 15 minutes or so worth of traditional magic during his Memory & Hyp act. I believe Orville Meyer likewise used a bit of specifically framed magic in his shows as a way to show contrast, and needless to say Dunninger went so far as to use grand illusion as a way to add to the theater of his programs. But in each instance, they deliberately segregated and defined the difference between trickery and mental prowess/skill (none of these guys did the boogieman theme, that was more Nelson's thing )

In the UK you have to be careful about any claims your make. In 2008 the 'Consumer Protection' law was amended to include psychics, mediums and other practitioners of the paranormal. You cannot make unsubstantiated claims to have 'special powers.' In essence this means displaying a notice (or small print) which says that what you do is 'for entertainment only'.