talkmagic.co.uk

hellosies,
so i came up with a method for a card to card-case trick and have no idea if it's been done before. My suspicion is that it must have been in as its such a simple method. So here's the question: obviously when I'm very rich and very famous with my hour long TV specials and Las Vegas stage show, all my adoring and exceptionally attractive fans will want me to publish effects, and I will come back to this one, advertising it as the MOST DIABOLICAL method ever devised, FOOL ALL YOUR FRIENDS etc. NO PALMING, in fact: NO SLEIGHTS, NO THOUGHT REQUIRED AT ALL BY THE PERFORMER, people will think you can DO REAL MAGIC . Yours for just ££$£££$$. (more capital letters = more sales, right?)

ahem. anyway, any advice on finding out if its been done before? short of telling everyone the method. Or more philosophically, does it really matter if someone came up with it before me?

any thoughts most welcome

Will

There is a vast amount of knowledge on these boards an your best start is to describe the trick so we can advise you on where to do your research.

Once you have established yourself in here you will know which wizened wizards are friendly towards you. This is ideal for when you want to run ideas past people. I've used people on here plenty and so far havnt been charged a penny!

Check out the review forum and use the same format to tell us about your brand new Miracle.

Alec

magicarp wrote:Or more philosophically, does it really matter if someone came up with it before me?

Yes, it does. It's called prior art.

magicarp wrote: (more capital letters = more sales, right?)

It also helps if you have a capitalised X in the middle of your product name.... appareXntly.

If you don't want to explain out in the open feel free to PM me your method and I'll see what I can see.

Tomo wrote:

magicarp wrote:Or more philosophically, does it really matter if someone came up with it before me?

Yes, it does. It's called prior art.

ahh yes i phrased that a bit wrong really. I meant it more in the context of me performing the effect, but not actually selling it. If I use it in a routine and tell other magicians that it is my effect, its not really infringing any copywrite laws and i didnt KNOWINGLY steal it. So in that context it doesn't particularly matter in the grand scheme of things. obviously if i came up with a new effect then saw someone else doing the same thing claiming it as their original work, i'd be pretty put out, even if they weren't making any financial gain. The thing is i suppose, that even though you are morally in the clear from your point of view, you still end up causing offense.

Lawrence wrote:

magicarp wrote: (more capital letters = more sales, right?)

It also helps if you have a capitalised X in the middle of your product name.... appareXntly.

If you don't want to explain out in the open feel free to PM me your method and I'll see what I can see.

Hi lawrence,
to be honest I'm not too fussed about explaining it out in the open as the card-to-card-case concept has been around for so long, its not exactly going to revolutionise the magic community (and i really can't believe that no-one has come up with this before). I was more worried about breaching the exposure rules. I'll PM you the method and see what you think, cheers

p.s sorry for double posting.
p.p.s. Love the profile picture L, its the best one on here by a mile (sorry everyone else, but you know its true)

Okay, triple posting now. Forgive me!
Just PM'd Lawrence and found i've been thwarted by one Mr Kemsley. How lovely. Goodbye Las Vegas. Goodbye TV show. Goodbye publishing deal.

Never mind eh?

magicarp wrote:

Tomo wrote:

magicarp wrote:Or more philosophically, does it really matter if someone came up with it before me?

Yes, it does. It's called prior art.

ahh yes i phrased that a bit wrong really. I meant it more in the context of me performing the effect, but not actually selling it. If I use it in a routine and tell other magicians that it is my effect, its not really infringing any copywrite laws and i didnt KNOWINGLY steal it. So in that context it doesn't particularly matter in the grand scheme of things. obviously if i came up with a new effect then saw someone else doing the same thing claiming it as their original work, i'd be pretty put out, even if they weren't making any financial gain. The thing is i suppose, that even though you are morally in the clear from your point of view, you still end up causing offense.

Seriously?

Lets say you think you come up with an idea and you show it to other magicians. And then you tell them it is your idea. Chances are you are going to come out looking like a fool, for lack of a better word that I am allowed to use. A) You don't know that it is yours and there is a better than even chance that one of the magicians that you show it too will know exactly where it came from. So either you are just a liar trying to steal credit or you don't bother to do any research on a method you think is your own when it may not be. You are not morally or ethically correct when you make such statements which is why you will end up causing offense.

The correct and morally ethical thing to do would be to show the effect and rather than tell another magician it is yours you can tell them that you came up with it on your own but you honestly don't know if anybody has come up with it before you. In this situation you are being open and honest and you still didn't have to do any research to really find out if it is yours or not.

When it comes to performing for lay people the discussion should never even come up.

In addition to the post above, if I design and create a card or close up routine, I will always ask and use the resources available to be to search for a similar or exact method so I know if it's original or so that I can referance any similar thinking. After all that however, unless I'm 100% sure, I will normally claim that to the best of my knowledge the effect is my own creation.

good points hds02115 and bmat, I clearly didn't think this one through very hard, cheers for keeping me on the straight and narrow. I've just ordered some crampons and ice axes to aid with the ascent of the ever steepening curve of learning; the frictional coefficient for which seems to be directly proportional to stupidity and assumption. Derp.

As mentioned, perform it for some magicians and ask if there is anything like it that they know of.

This has the bonus of allowing you to research the effect and perhaps adopt aspects from the original to better your own presentation.

Again as above, I just wouldn't make a claim at all.

As I have said before, any good performance is 10% method and 90% presentation. This means that even if the method has been used before, The performance is 100% yours.
Ronny