talkmagic.co.uk

Hi Guys,

It's been a while

I recently purchased 'Lit' which I love, but noticed a certain somebody (not relevant) perform a variation of this on a TV show where...

... a card was selected and signed, then a match was lit underneath 'the selected card'

another spectator was then asked to think of a card and hey presto 'the selected card' with the match underneath magically changes into the thought of card

the original signed selection is now found to be the match book folded up

the only thing I am confused about is the 'thought of card' basically I want to know how the hell this can be achieved

In order for this to work he must have known what the guy was going to think of because the 'work' was already done if you know what I mean

I am not asking anyone to reveal anything all I want to know is where the best place to start would be learning material / magi literature wise

Any help would be greatly appreciated

On the show in question was it not the spectators own matchbook? I also saw this on tv recently. I suspect it may take a little bit of pr* sh*w work?

Edit: may have been exposure. Now fixed.

I don't know about pr* sh*w work (those stars are fooling no one)

I've seen Derren Brown do something similar with his invisible card to cigarette

Again I am not asking for any reveals but what the hell did people like him study to start doing 'thought of card tricks'

There are two basic techniques. One has already been explained to you. You give the impression of dismissing this, although I am not sure why you think that isn't the answer. It most definitely is in many cases, especially on TV and stage with apparently impossible revelations.

The other is through controlling the selection and/or the revelations. You should know about that already, surely, but a book like 13 Steps to Mentalism may help.

I suppose there is a third technique that can lead to the impression of thought of card revelations. Controlling perceptions. This sort of thing is dealt with in a number of places, but off the top of my head, I suggest Kenton Knepper's books, such as Secrets of Indirection and the Wonder Words series.

As the much-missed Iain might have said, no spoon-feeding. I think that's enough information to get you started.

Part-Timer wrote:There are two basic techniques. One has already been explained to you. You give the impression of dismissing this, although I am not sure why you think that isn't the answer. It most definitely is in many cases, especially on TV and stage with apparently impossible revelations.

I am not being dismissive, I just don't see how this could be pre - arranged unless the second spec was a stooge and I am almost certain that that is not the case.

I guess the performer may have known what the second specs thought of card would be before the trick and made sure he was the one that was asked, but that would still be a mystery to me.

Alas, I didn't see the performance in question, so I cannot help more. However, you are possibly falling into the trap of thinking that the "only" way something can be done is by involving a stooge, because you do not know how it was actually done (Derren Brown seems to get this a lot).

Then again, maybe it was a stooge. It happens.

I hope you don't think I am being deliberately obstructive. I just think you need to get some more basics sorted and then you'll begin to understand how these things might work.

Part-Timer wrote:Alas, I didn't see the performance in question, so I cannot help more. However, you are possibly falling into the trap of thinking that the "only" way something can be done is by involving a stooge, because you do not know how it was actually done (Derren Brown seems to get this a lot).

Then again, maybe it was a stooge. It happens.

I hope you don't think I am being deliberately obstructive. I just think you need to get some more basics sorted and then you'll begin to understand how these things might work.

I did say 'I just don't see how this could be pre - arranged unless the second spec was a stooge and I am almost certain that that is not the case.'

And with respect I do know the basics, which is why I am looking into something that seems a little more advanced.

JammyT wrote:I did say 'I just don't see how this could be pre - arranged unless the second spec was a stooge and I am almost certain that that is not the case.'

And with respect I do know the basics, which is why I am looking into something that seems a little more advanced.

The key point was that you had no idea how it could have been done, except with a stooge (whether or not you thought it was unlikely). I have noticed that a lot of magicians who don't know much about mentalism (and this includes some mentalists...) can only think of "stooge" as a method for a lot of mentalism effects.

What I was highlighting was that if you knew the right basics (note that I said you needed to learn "more" basics, not "the" basics), then you wouldn't necessarily be foxed. Even if you didn't know the exact method used, you'd have ideas for ways in which it might have been done.

Instead of saying thank you for me bothering to tell you which resources you should start looking at (exactly what you asked for), all you have done is protest about a fairly obvious conclusion I drew from what you wrote.

You say you don't have a clue as to how a trick was done, I say that it's because you don't know the basic methods (of mentalism) and then you say that of course you know the basics and that therefore you need something more advanced. I know that if you were aware of the right basic principles, you couldn't be so completely lost. In case I was wrong, I suggested both mentalism basics (13 Steps is probably the best option for your purposes) and "further reading".

Again as I said before, had I been able to see the trick in question, I might have a better idea of exactly what went on. However, as you wanted to know how to start down the road to "thought of" card effects, that is the information I gave you. I was willing to try to help precisely because you initially indicated that you wanted to know where to start learning, rather than having it all handed to you on a plate. Perhaps I was wrong, but your previous posts on this forum left me with the impression that you are a decent sort.

If I was right about what you wanted, I have thought of other things that might help - Tomo's Naked Mentalism books (especially the first two, but probably not the sort of "thought of" card trick you saw) and Paul Brook's The Gift. Yes, I have recommended a lot of books (there are actually many, many more that might be relevant, but I am trying to weed them out a bit for you). That's because there are lots of ways of achieving this sort of effect, and the one used for the trick you saw might be completely impractical for you to use.

That reminds me, has anyone ever written a book on how to use the nature of television production to make tricks look even more impossible?

Part Timer I do appreciate your help

My response was not intended to sound ungrateful or argumentative

and I see what you mean about 'the basics' comment

Please don't think I'm trying to be argumentative or make out as if I know it all

So I guess if I want to look into tricks that invlove 'thought of cards' the mentalism refs you have given would be a good place to start

But maybe a link to the video would help you realise why this particular effect has me so stumped

It might do, but as I hinted in my last post, sometimes TV shows can completely obscure the method. I think this can backfire sometimes, leaving a trick "too good to be true", but that's a whole different debate!

I will post later

but I would be more than willing to get into a ''too good to be true'' debate and hope posting the link may provoke that

I find the subject quite interesting

Sorry for reviving this old thread - Does anybody know where I may purchase the plain white matchbooks required for this? I cannot find them anywhere and I must have this trick before the sale at alakazam ends!