talkmagic.co.uk

its 1 good day for every five at the mo but thanxs for asking i read the posts but only now comment when i think i have something valid to say, somedays I'm just to thick headed to switch on the computer

I have deleted all content of my posts (the rest of the usual silly stuff has been deleted by Mods!)

This is not 17th Century Japan. There is no such thing as a ninja.

woo my friend andys going to real sick when he comes back from a ten year tour of japan demonstrating his erm skill he didn't learn what a silly billy he's been all this time

your absolutly right there no conclusive proof that people can move objects with there mind or teleport from place to place and i'd be the first to be looking for the wires.

as for increasing the force of ther blows thats also patently rediculus but martial arts can teach you to ignore or even stop the pain receptors that alows you to break things that any sensible person would shy away from oh and bend metal bars and break spears with you neck, of cause thers a lot of pysics involved i meen monks that break iron bars on there heads do so with tempered iron which is very strong lateraly but very brittle cross wise, there not that stupid.

the human body is capable of amasing feats of strength when properly conditioned or shocked into it like a mother lifting a car off her baby (in actual fact she only lifted a 1/4 of the weight and gravity did the rest as it rolled down the hill, still an amasing feet for a 90lb female).

but i do see your point.

Actually I did this in Chi Akido many, many years ago. It's the same effect as getting three or four people to try and lift someone (my instructor in this case) who only weighs 9 stone or so.. and they can't even budge him.

Falling wise.. The feeling is quite bizare in that, with your eyes closed, you can actually feel something pushing or pulling you (although very gently) which funnily enough corresponds to the way they wanted you to go. It works on the principle that if you stand up, close your eyes and relax your natural response is to sway. The technique is to use this natural sway to get them to go forward or backwards (as you want).

The technique is not hard to learn (took me about 2 hours or so to get some effect on someone) but Chi Akido is not the way to go because..

1: It only works when the subject is completely relaxed with their eyes closed for instance.
2: It won't work on everyone (like hypnotism.. some people are more susceptible than others).
3: The effect is very slight and only works backwards and forwards (well that's all I was taught anyway)
4: It takes time, needs to be setup (ie. get the subject stood with their eyes closed and relaxed etc..) and is not an instant effect.
5: It's not reliable outside in the street !

So Mr Brown etc.. must use some other technique (What I have no concrete idea).. it's not Chi alone (if any at all).

It is possible to do this with Chi Akido but NOT to do magic type stuff instantly as everyone wants.

Hope this helps

Slippery.

I have deleted all content of my posts (the rest of the usual silly stuff has been deleted by Mods - but parts of his original message were copied and pasted below!)

There are lots of different subjects here ... a few thoughts ...

1. The Christian "slain in the spirit" thing where people fall over is, I think, largely the result of auto-suggestion and expectation (same thing?) plus disorientation and having closed eyes. The effect of other people in a similar state reinforces this. Ditto "speaking in tongues" and other manifestations of various Imaginary Friends.

2. The effect of making people feel they are touched when they are not is the subject of some mentalism routines. I don't know how it's done but there are books on this. This isn't the one I had in mind but seems similar after a quick search: http://www.magicshop.co.uk/BOOKS.26/Psychokinetic_Touches.425.html . Sometimes in martial arts there are distraction techniques using something light like grass which can be held in the pocket>closed fist and used to surprise an opponent who is out of range. In the dark he won't know what it was. I've used it for "real" (on a sparring partner) one time and it was very effective - the real attack came in before he has recovered from his surprise.

3. Aikido - there is (I believe) a technique that involves pushing the opponent gently in one direction and then, as his body tenses to resist that, pulling in the other direction and making a person fall over with ease. So a person pushed lightly forward then swiftly back (in time with the opponent trying himself to resist the pull forward) may go down very easily. Never tried it myself but that's the theory.

4. Gary3911 - re Ninja - there are a small group of "ninja" in Japan based around a very retiring chiropractor. But no, they don't live in the hills and attack Samurai or anything. Instead they have collected the old texts, practised various methods and learnt dying martial arts from old men. There are a few foreigners too - but not many. Still, those I met are pretty impressive, also very retiring and keen to avoid the limelight.

I don't believe in Chi/Ki/whatever but certainly do think people can have a heightened awareness of danger. Just look how jumpy some officers from Cat A prisons can be, or RUC officers in the old days.

Right, back to magic.

Gary3911 wrote:This is exactly the point - unusual effects are possible, but are mainly a function of audience (or victim) psyche. I have never seen of or heard of a demonstration of someone being hurled aroung against their will by some kind of spectral force. It's just the same with TV evangelists - it's always the willing participants that collapse under group hysteria.

Put it like this: if you were in a bar faced with a bunch of rowdy and belligerent drunks - who would you pick to get you out of the situation - a martial arts master that claims to be able to project his life force on other people; or a top magician that claims he can control people with psychology and tricks. I'm choosing Derren Brown every time.

I certainly agree with the first point but in the second case I'd go for a certain little policeman from Brixton. It's amazing how fast people will sober up once the first couple have been dropped.

I know this debate could go on forever... so I'm not going to say too much more..

Chi Akido (related to Akido.. but Chi Akido the spiritual side) is all about using peoples forces (whether that's life force or whatever.. it makes no odds at this point) against them. eg. If someone ran at you and you stuck your foot out they'd tirp and fall over. Chi Akido would describe this as stopping the body but the force (in this case their Chi (we'd probably call it momentum)) would keep going, dragging their body with it. This is a simplistic example.. but in essence Akido is about using the Chi (or force) of someone attacking you against them without much effort on your part such as you see in mrtial arts films where they kick, miss and their opponent uses their momentum to push them over etc.. Whether you think this is a "life force" or simple physics makes no odds as it does make sense when you do it. As for the falling over and other "weird" stuff.. it just seems to work for some reason. No idea how or why, it just does, but like I said.. it really is no good for use in performances of the magical variety.

Secondly.. What is all this talk about no Ninjas... what about the Mutant Ninja Hero Turtles.. don't tell me they're not real.. I saw the film (I thought it was a documentary) and everything..

Oh well.. we live and learn I guess..