Failures in my hands

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Failures in my hands

Postby Barry Allen » May 1st, '22, 18:26



I was thinking the other day about Tricks that I've practiced through the years; but never got around to performing regularly, for one reason or another.

They are all decent effects - but I truly believe that there are certain props we buy and never use; or feel do not suit our personality.

Well, here's a few of mine.......and the reasons.

DIZZY DOMINOES (also Ken Brooke's version - Spotty Dots).
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/ ... -483557765"

Note: Although I'm an admirer of Fred Kaps, his contribution within the instructions (mentioned in the advert above) just muddy the already troubled waters of this trick, in my humble opinion.

I really like the concept of this trick - particularly the normal domino version. I think Ken's version just looks like a Magic prop.

However, try as I might, it has never gained any decent reaction. I've used 3 and 4 phases and even a quicker 2 phase version. All have fallen as flat as a Witches tit.

EGG BAG - a timeless classic.

However, despite learning a couple of routines, including the highly-praised Ken Brooke Malini Egg Bag version, I've just never felt comfortable presenting it.

Yes it has gone over quite well with audiences - but I just don't think the 'props are me'. That probably makes no sense whatsoever; but what I'm trying to get at is that a little cloth bag and an egg just doesn't seem to fit my Cockney Jack the Lad persona.

What's more, when I have presented it, I've continually been asking myself "gawd almighty......surely they aren't dense enough not to realise it's in a secret bit of the bag".

To this end, I dropped it many years ago - it's a Classic and deserves greater respect than I can give it.

SWAMI GIMMICK - something I still need to nail. Nail.....get it? No? Don't blame ya.

Now here is a gimmick that in my opinion, has the potential to make any common mortal appear to be a miracle worker.

Forget the thousands of pounds that you can spend on radio transmitters, etc. or seriously overpriced book tests, because this little gimmick, along with a pencil and a few Post-it notes, can do more or less whatever expensive mentalist gimmicks achieve - AND obviously with normal-looking items.

Fact is though, despite practicing to handle one correctly, I've rarely ever used it - other than to predict a Birthdate.

I don't perform a lot of mentalist-based effects - but I have used a Birthdate theme when I've done Cold Reading and Palm Analysis, areas that Joe Riding pushed me to into learning.

That said, I've probably used the Centre Tear more over the years (for anyone that is comfortable with a Centre Tear and has Harry Lorayne's Close-Up Card Magic, there is a trick within titled 'Tell my Fortune'. I've had a lot of mileage from that trick over many years. It may not read much BUT particularly for Women, it is a a tad more powerful than Benzais-spinning out 4 Aces or a Royal Flush)!

Outside of this, I've never really bothered to grow my left thumbnail long enough to hold one in place (I'm a bit OCD with my hands - preferring short nails).

I must have bought my packet of 4 Swami's around 30 years ago. However, I've never yet even had the need to change a new lead over. I must be missing something.

CHINESE BIT (or Copper/Silver/Brass).

I haven't tried this for years; having sold my Eddie Gibson version to someone who was desperate for a set.

I just could not get people to remember, no matter how slowly I went, which hands held which particular coins. It just only ever garnered what I considered an "oh, that's nice......but what actually happened" attitude. However, the well known (John Scarne/Stars of Magic?) transposition with normal Copper and Silver coins in their hands works a treat - particularly when you use the (I think Dai Vernon) ruse of only showing one of the coins at the outset. It focuses their mind better and just seems to have a greater impact.

There are other tricks that either don't ever appear to have fitted; or indeed that I am too incompetent to deliver effectively - but that's the few that initially spring to mind.

Just to add into the mix, things that are now popular BUT I'd never buy - as quite simply, they make my eyes glaze over:

- The raft of Tricks now featuring a Rubik's Cube. I never had the enthusiasm to bother with one as a kid; so they certainly don't hold any interest now. What's more, surely the audience must know what's coming, the second you point out the mixed-up cube?

- Tricks that involve drawing or writing over a playing card (or card case) with a Sharpie. To paraphrase what I read somewhere once about signing cards - "it cheapens the prop".

- Multiple versions of upgrades for gimmicks that bend coins or keys.

Finally, what else gets on my nerves:

- Magicians who invent utter BS on their websites, such as 'award-winning'; then accompany this with a load of oh so obviously fake testimonials. If I had to so desperately lie to myself in this manner, I'd rather just give up.

- People flogging their unwanted cr@p on MagicWeek, stating 'it was an unwanted gift', or 'bought for me as a present....but I already had one".

Yeah right! Just be honest - such as "personally , having been seduced like a mug into buying it, I think it's pony.....but you must want to buy it from me at a cheaper price than a dealer charges".

Finally, people who slag off sponge ball routines. I don't know of any routine that ever goes over better with people!

I've therefore got a sneaking suspicion that the 'sponge ball haters' dislike the prop simply because they've never been able to vanish/fake transfer one convincingly enough - and it's therefore just pure jealousy!

There ya go - some Bank Holiday ramblings to hopefully get a bit of banter going.

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Re: Failures in my hands

Postby Mandrake » May 2nd, '22, 07:13

Thanks Barry, certainly food for thought. I'll try and get my braincells together and see if I can add something useful to this thread!

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Re: Failures in my hands

Postby mark lewis » May 3rd, '22, 01:05

I have actually been quite surprised by the amount of magicians who just can't stand the egg bag trick! I still remember Harry Stanley telling me how much he disdained the trick! And he isn't the only well known name who has said the same thing!
I always liked it but for the life of me couldn't find the right approach or the correct presentation. However, after years of piddling around with it now I have! I actually have two routines for it. One for kids and one for adults. For adults I use the Roy Benson finish where you end up with 5 or 6 eggs in the bag. Even though this has been described in print donkey's years ago I don't remember seeing a single magician do it! Yet it is a terrific finish to the trick. What I like about my own routine with the egg and the bag is that I don't get anyone up from the audience whereas just about everyone I see doing it uses audience participation.

Incidentally the routine which everyone (especially magicians) go nuts over and gets rave review is the Johnny Thompson one. However, I have never been excited about it. I have always thought it was too slow going despite most magicians telling me it is the best routine out there. I don't think it is but then I am an old misery. I am not a fan of long winded magic and this takes over 8 minutes! Judge it for yourself anyway:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTspsI5rQcQ

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Re: Failures in my hands

Postby magicofthemind » May 3rd, '22, 09:58

This is the definitive egg bag performance for me. Notice how small his bag is. I've always used a similar routine and had great success with it. It even works for young children. I learnt it from Hugard's "Modern Magic Manual"; he refers to De Biere, for whom this routine worked in large theatres.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfDJoosgQds

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Re: Failures in my hands

Postby Barry Allen » May 4th, '22, 08:02

Many thanks for the YouTube links chaps.

I fully agree with your point Mark - the Johnny Thompson performance managed to literally glaze my eyes over in under 2 minutes . I just kept thinking to myself........"for F%$£ Sake, stop prattling and just get on with it"! If I thought that (even as an interested party), I'm pretty sure that modern-day British audiences would be thinking similar.

You'd probably get away with it in Canada though. The Canadians I've met are extremely polite people....they'd probably even wait around long enough for the egg to hatch. Then again, these were people that I witnessed eating plates of chips covered in cheese AND gravy. They are clearly entertained by the most basic things in life.

The multiple egg production is a good finale Mark - I think I read it in the superb (albeit sadly overlooked) book - 'Classic Secrets of Magic' by Bruce Elliott. That's the book where I cut my teeth on some Egg Bag moves initially. It also peaked my interest in the Multiplying Billiard Balls and Razor Blade Tricks. Just pulling it off the shelf, I see the multi-egg finale is attributed to Roy Benson. This book of course, also contains the superb Benson Bowl routine.

That De Biere version was much more tolerable Barry. How does it 'go over' when you perform it?

I seem to remember Martin Breese writing in a (1981'ish?) Pabular, how he'd got around to just carrying the Egg Bag and a Devano Pack everywhere; and performing the Lewis Ganson routines outlined within The Art of Close-Up Magic (Vol 2). These are both nicely structured. Moreover, thinking about it, these are two excellent tricks for either an instant Close-up or Stand-up performance. Both visual, easy to carry and with minimum reset.

As an aside, getting a decent Devano these days is almost impossible. In fact, forget the 'almost'.

I've bought two American versions in the past that were absolutely useless. One was from Repro Magic - so like a lot of their over-priced junk, it had the lifespan of a Mayfly from the outset. I also bought the highly-recommended 'Martini Deck' manufactured by Marty Grams. Again, even more complete and utter Yank rubbish if I'm brutally honest.

I have still got an Alf Cooke Devano - but sadly, the thread has finally given up. Re-threading attempts have been a
complete waste of time. That particular pack worked like an absolute dream - 100% reliable every time. I've also got an International Magic Devano from the days of Ron MacMillan; made in Waddington cards. These aren't too bad; and much better than the Piatnik ones that Mitch Devano sold in later years.

Anyway, back on track. Maybe I will dust the old bag off again and give it a tryout. She should be getting up for work in half hour's time.

I only hope that the egg isn't cracked. I seem to remember that the last time that I blew an egg out over the kitchen sink, I saw one of my lungs vanish down the plughole after about 30 minutes.

I bid you gentlemen a good day.

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Re: Failures in my hands

Postby magicofthemind » May 4th, '22, 08:23

I use the plastic egg that came with the egg bag, or sometimes other objects. It really doesn't have to be an egg. I've never been accused of having a "secret bit" in the bag! it's not seen much nowadays so it's going to be new to most audiences.

"Classic Secrets of Magic" is an excellent book; amongst other useful stuff it includes the Dr Sack dice routine and Carlyle's business card turnover, both of which have served me well. Printing a blank business card never fails to impress. I don't like his egg bag, routine, though; he goes to ridiculous lengths to over-prove that the bag is empty. But one of his diagrams has stuck in my mind: the one with the twisted bag. I always use that.

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Re: Failures in my hands

Postby mark lewis » May 4th, '22, 18:20

I do an incredible amount from the Classic Secrets of magic and not just the egg bag finish! I used to do both the Billiard Ball routine and a ton of other stuff from the book at one time. I still do the billiard ball trick but tend more towards the Potassy routine nowadays. I still do the Dr Sack Dice trick and it gets great reaction from laymen. Here it is anyway!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRvT_6msjcs

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Re: Failures in my hands

Postby Barry Allen » May 6th, '22, 14:23

That was exceptionally well-delivered Mr. Lewis.

I would imagine that it is a very nice effect for mingling in a small group; or even one on one.

That said, it may be somewhat confusing for people in Yorkshire to follow; after all, 14 is quite a high number to add up.

Funny that you mention Paul Potassy. I think I only ever saw him once on the Paul Daniels Show.....but his superb presentation of Sympathetic Silks has stuck long in my memory.

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Re: Failures in my hands

Postby Barry Allen » May 6th, '22, 14:39

Hi Barry,

I agree with your points. Quite possibly, over proving that the bag is empty via unnatural moves, could have entirely the opposite effect. The Ken Brooke Malini Egg Bag AND the De Biere routines (of which there are many similarities) are more dependent upon the spectator proving that point for you.

The business card turnover move......how have I forgotten that little gem!

Mark, yourself and yours truly have clearly all got so much value from that one little book. I've been reading through it again and so many happy memories have come flooding back. My Dad bought my copy in Davenports around 1978.....for the sum of £1.45, according to the price sticker. Recently, I saw a copy on ebay for a fiver remain unsold.

Newer Magicians today truly don't know just what they are missing out on.

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Re: Failures in my hands

Postby magicofthemind » May 6th, '22, 15:04

My copy of the book came from a secondhand bookshop in the early seventies - cover price 45p, paid 25p. It's still in VG condition. (I also bought a few other books from the same shop at different times, including Magic as a Hobby and Modern Magic Manual.)

Here's my entirely different use for the egg bag. I later wrote this up for Steve Drury's book Key Mysteries, under the title Apport 2, as I had had a previous Apport article, based on a different principle, published in The Linking Ring. Apport 2 of course uses a key instead of the object in this video.

https://youtu.be/vILUprZPqyA" target="_blank

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Re: Failures in my hands

Postby mark lewis » May 7th, '22, 02:38

Barry Allen wrote:That was exceptionally well-delivered Mr. Lewis.

I would imagine that it is a very nice effect for mingling in a small group; or even one on one.

That said, it may be somewhat confusing for people in Yorkshire to follow; after all, 14 is quite a high number to add up.

Funny that you mention Paul Potassy. I think I only ever saw him once on the Paul Daniels Show.....but his superb presentation of Sympathetic Silks has stuck long in my memory.


I quite agree about people not being able to follow the effect of the dice trick. That is why I ask questions throughout the routine to see if they know what I am talking about. They usually do. As for Potassy you can see him here again with the Sympathetic Silks the only difference is that here he is 85 year old! Better than 90% of people half his age!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uXWeFBHFw8

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Re: Failures in my hands

Postby Barry Allen » May 7th, '22, 18:01

Many thanks for the link Mark.

Paul presents that trick beautifully. To use a more modern phrase - he owns it.

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Re: Failures in my hands

Postby Barry Allen » Jul 21st, '22, 16:54

Just to update this thread.

It actually spurred me on to practice for many hours, with a Swami Gimmick. The upshot is that over the past few months, I've subsequently become completely engrossed with Mentalism!

As for practicing with the Swami. I should add not just writing with it; but just as importantly fitting it, ditching it and keeping it hidden throughout. This has been made easier by using a small leather notepad holder from eBay, that just adds a bit of class.

This saga primarily came about because I've recently performed some 'all women' events - where I know that Palm Reading is just a tad more popular than Magic effects. To supplement this, I performed Think A Card; and presented some Mentalism-based routines with cards; and primarily effects using just the Centre Tear, or a Swami; coupled with a raft of smooth-talking (read typical Cockney BS). Incidentally, what has also become evident is the success rate that you can achieve using Cold Reading - it really does appear that the more you use it, the more accurate that you can become reading people.

For the first time in over 40 years, instead of reading books to learn even more new tricks, I've spent my spare time thinking of, or writing notes about, all elements of my presentation as I enter this new sphere.

Meanwhile, whilst I don't think anyone I've met has ever truly believed in real Magic, I'm now finding people believe what I'm presenting Mentalism-wise, is actually the real deal! It's actually just a tad scary.

For the first time ever, I feel completely comfortable presenting this type of material over the usual Magic trick fayre. More importantly, the reactions that I'm receiving are quite incredible really. Maybe I've just always been a dreadful Magician! However, revealing someone's thought of number or Birthday, is just a tad more engaging than getting their card to keep jumping to the top of the pack; or producing 4 Aces, etc.

It has got me thinking about why Mentalism appears more popular with audiences. Is it because many magic effects are often simply a demonstration of ability? Do audiences perceive Magic as a challenge that they need to work out?

Performing Mentalism obviously engages people on a personal level. I've noticed that people don't try to figure out the Modus Operandi - they just appear to come along, completely interested, for the ride ahead.

Another point I have noted. Over the years of performing Magic, certain people request to shuffle the cards. However, when I've recently been presenting Mentalism effects with cards, this doesn't get requested - and the Eight Kings keep their order (I've got a back-up pack just as insurance obviously). The hardest thing has been to not break into a Riffle or Faro shuffle; an apparent ham-fisted Haymow, followed by getting them to cut the pack, seems to suffice/convince. I can only put it down to the fact that if you are perceived to be a Mentalist rather than a Magician, then people tend to trust you more?

That aside, it also just feels so rewarding going out to work with so little. I'm literally using a stacked pack, a Swami, a pad of paper, a few small envelopes and a pencil. I've also got a small peek wallet that contains my business cards, that is useful under certain working conditions - albeit I prefer a Centre Tear.

Along with Palm Reading (and occasional Picometry) I don't think I've ever received such reactions from so very, very little prop-wise. 'Less is more'........it may have taken many, many years to fully appreciate - but I couldn't agree more.

I drink socially in a pub and Working-Man's Club. Occasionally, I may have been asked over the years to show someone a trick - I'm not a performing monkey and have never pushed it. However, over the past few weeks, I'm regularly being asked to demonstrate some mind-reading, or to read a palm. Moreover, having been back for just over a week from abroad, I have, quite honestly, picked up two bookings - a 40th Birthday Party and a Wedding reception - just through word of mouth within the Club. I'm semi-retired now - but working shows at a venue which is a five minute walk away, is the type of work that I can't really refuse. Would this have happened performing Magic? Well, quite frankly, I'm not too sure.

At this rate, I can see me selling a whole lot of unwanted magic props and books over the coming months!

Just thought I'd share what's happening - and to see whether anyone has ever had a similar experience?

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Re: Failures in my hands

Postby mark lewis » Aug 1st, '22, 13:40

Oddly enough although I did a fair amount of mentalism in the past I tend to shy away from it nowadays because believe it or not it doesn't fit in with my psychic activities! Counter intuitive though it may be my activities as a psychic reader fits in far better with magic than mentalism does for reasons I have no energy to explain. For one thing it is more fun and a wonderful contrast!

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Re: Failures in my hands

Postby Barry Allen » Aug 2nd, '22, 11:50

mark lewis wrote:Oddly enough although I did a fair amount of mentalism in the past I tend to shy away from it nowadays because believe it or not it doesn't fit in with my psychic activities! Counter intuitive though it may be my activities as a psychic reader fits in far better with magic than mentalism does for reasons I have no energy to explain. For one thing it is more fun and a wonderful contrast!

That's a very interesting point Mark - there is indeed a contrast between the Magic that you perform; and your ability with the Palms and Tarot.

From clips I've seen, you weave your abilities successfully on your stall within the shopping centre. Moreover, I know from your previous interviews on YouTube that you have successfully sold Svengali Cards at Psychic Fairs. Joe Riding did something similar. For example, he would use ploys such as the 10/20 Force with the Major Arcana to match his prediction in an envelope. He would also use Think A Card with a normal pack to seemingly tap into someone's mind. He said that this generated interest and proved his ability over other Psychics in attendance; many of whom sat there not even attempting to engage with the crowd.

It could be said that Joe's approach was a little different as they could be deemed Mental Magic or Mind-reading, as opposed to Magic-related routines.

Bottom line is that I've not picked up a Sponge Ball for Months. Blowing smoke up my own rear end here, I know that I can perform extremely convincing retention vanishes, etc. and can work the sponges extremely well, across a myriad of routines , depending upon the audience and conditions. I bought my first set from Alan Alan when I was still at school - so I've basically lived with this trick for over 40 years. Most importantly, I know just how well this plays - because I've been asked to repeat it constantly, more than any other effect in fact. Since discovering this comfort-zone of Mentalism, it does feel like I've lost an old friend. I have thought of ways of presenting the balls with a Mental flavour - such as metamorphosis/psychic transposition. However, even with my silver tongue, I think an audience would know that I was talking utter BS if I pursued this line.

I just don't want anything to detract from the current belief that what I'm doing is anything so clearly removed from 'Parapsychology' (a wonderful word used by Chan Canasta).

As an aside, as a newbie to this field, I am already learning one important lesson - don't hit 100% every time! As we know, Chan had a certain failure rate which actually enhanced his reputation. An example of this - performing the unknown 2 cards in pockets. I've recently been deliberately miscalling the value of the first card (left pocket). Do you know the response? "Yeah - but you got the suit right". If I was presenting it as a Magic Trick, would the response be - "nah mate, ha ha you're wrong".

As always, your words of wisdom, are read, enjoyed and digested for optimum value.

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