talkmagic.co.uk

Okay, what I am about to say probably flies right in the face of what most of us would call the pinnacle of magic, the ultimate thing - and quite what value this topic has is of debate, but it was an interesting thought and one which might be interesting to look in to.

Vanishes. A mainstay of magic, both close-up and on stage. Imagine the following though: you're out walking with friends when someone in their drunken stupour points to a car and asks if you can make it disappear. You say that yes, you can, and suddenly it just vanishes. No cover or anything like that, literally one moment it is there and the next it is gone.

Now that is a damn impressive effect. People would probably stop thinking about it as a trick and believe that you could do real magic.

So here is my question - as a magical entertainer - someone who purports to do what mimics actual magic - would such a vanish be as effective as if, say, you raised a cloth in front of it for a moment and then dropped it and then the car was gone?

Hear me out.

As a magician, people expect you to do tricks. Not real magic, but something very close to it. As such an instantaneous, in your face vanish would appear to be quite ugly. There is no mysticism. The vanish is in plain view. Put simply, there is no real elegance to it. But imagine the same effect, using the exact same method (whatever that may be) only you raise a cloth in front of it for a split-second. To you, is this more impressive or not? There is a little more uncertainty as to what happened whilst the impossible conditions still more-or-less remaining.

Any thoughts on this? Or am I just on a bit of a ramble? I just found it an interesting notion that (to me anyway) the opposite of what real magic is - an apparent trick - can be at times more impressive than what the same effect would look like if accomplished by real magic.

Interestingly enough I was thinking about something similar the other day.
About vanishes and real magic and whatnot.

I personally think it's there it's gone type vanishes would be a lot LESS effective than a cover for a moment it's gone type vanishes.

The brain would, first and foremost reject what it just saw. It would be like watching a video edit, but without the video medium. The brain would reject it as well as spazzing out, brainfarting and generally making a complete mess of internal workings.

There is a degree of elegance to magic, and thee tricks we convey also use this elegance.
It might just be that we're accustomed to seeing elegance and grace rather than pure in your face vanishes but I doubt it.

Sleight of hand works the same way. Leaving a card poking out halfway and face in an ambitious card routine and seeing it literally appear at the top in the blink of an eye might look impressive, but then where's the real magic we create emotionally?

Real magic is the reaction. When we invoke a feeling of wonderment, disbelief and entertainment all at the same time.


And I don't know about anyone else, but I don't thinking vanishing a car in the blink of an eye would invoke any of that. I don't think in all honesty that it could. No matter how good your presentation of an in the blink of an eye vanish was


Just my views. Somewhat disorganised as they are...

If I'm understanding this question properly I'd have to say that the modern audience has grown tired of us covering everything up or having to a box, smoke, dim lights, etc. They want to see instantaneous magic happen that is free of all the trimmings to some level... they want to experience MAGICK... it's that simple!

That is one reason why the more bizarre and psychic-styled stuff has gained so much popularity in the past decade or so, it is closer to being "real"... that is also why there is so much heated debate over the idea of creating a magical experience that feels real that steps outside of the idea of just doing "tricks" vs. holding to the more traditional ploys we've been conditioned to believe to be "the right way" of doing it all.

I don't think that means we need to go the Urban Shaman Magic Veegan route some folks have exploited, nor do we need to stand around smouldering cauldrons and brews chanting odd incantations, but I do think there's a lot to be said about restoring our role and cultural image as miracle workers and allow that more insulting image of being the court jester to fade back into the background somewhere, where it's not so readily found and available for embarassing the rest of us.

Interesting point, but to me such things like the cover are not about clinging on to traditional ploys but about adding something to the illusion.

For example - in the middle of the street, with an impromptu request by someone to vanish a car, no-one is going to dispute that what you did was incredible. But if I had the ability to do that, just make something disappear in an instant, I would rather have something, even if it's for only a split-second, obscuring it to allow for that little bit of possibility that something could have happened. After all, there is a difference between magic and magick, and between a magician and a God. If you could make something disappear instantly with no room for leeway, you would not be seen as a magician but as a demi-God, let's face it!

Mind-reading and psychic phenomenon, now that's a different kettle of fish. There is something inherently beautiful about mind-reading. There are people who accept that there are psychics who can genuinely do it out there, but I doubt many believe that a magician really can genuinely make something disappear like that. Hence the different perceptions between someone who can read minds = psychic, someone who can do the miraculous = demi-God.

But then, I guess it's all about changing perceptions .

You would be rather surprised by the number of lay-people that actually do think what we do is "real"... I've heard people honestly swear up and down that Copperfield is a master of the Kabala and that's why he can fly and make things dematerialize and reappear, etc. I'm not pulling your leg, these are educated individuals with deep belief in such things and you simply aren't going to change their minds on it.

My own mother (to this day) swears I sold my soul to the Devil because she's seen me burn young women alive and impale them on swords and yet, they come back to life. I've even shown my father how the effects work (she won't come near the stuff because it's "evil") and he's rather impressed by the mechanical side of it all but even knowing that part of things, "they" (both of my parents) still have deep religiously inspired view points that more or less support the idea that what we do as a muse is still the devil's work and we've sold our souls in order to be able to weld such power over people's minds.

I know that it is difficult for us, as students of magic, to comprehind such things. Our knowledge is, in many ways, a curse; in that it robs us from being able to realize the impact of even the simplest effect when seen from the point of view of an "innocent".

I was working a club in Beverly Hills many, many years ago that was very popular with the upper crust black community and a prime hang out for the L.A. Lakers and noted black celebrities of the day like Red Foxx and Renaldo Rey, etc. We're talking about educated people who come from a culture that is highly superstitious and because of that I was asked to not do certain things like the Sponge Balls or any of the Mind Reading stuff because it was spooking the patrons... they saw it as Voodoo in the literal sense.

My point is, we already have the ability to bend the publics perception via some very basic principles and gain their honest and devoted support and endorsement as a guru and miracle worker. You don't have to move over into Mentalism or the psychic type stuff to get there or even bizarre magick. You just need to understand presentation and exploiting opportunity.

Your idea of giving them "an out" something that could explain away the "miraculous" and make it appear to be more of a "trick" brings us back to the debate about the "Too Perfect" effect as well as the thing Stephan Minch referred to as "Magician's Guilt" which, if you break it down, is most likely where part of your own desire to add a hint of flare and glitter to such a demonstration comes from... that and the fact that you are probably channeling some aspect of Flo Zigfield