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Hi, I'm an intermediate magician and I don't use flourishes on card tricks. I'm not talking about the common flourishes like simple spreads or shuffles but the harder fancy kind that give away the possibility that I can do sleight of hands.

In my style I always try to have the expectators think the effect was done with real magic but lot of times it doesn't work this way. In that case I rather have an extra layer of concealment by hiding the fact I do sleight of hands and the "trick" was accomplished by some other impossible to find gaff card or deck for example.

On the other side of the coin, flourishes can visually add to a routine and entertain people even more.

I don't have enough experience to know what the masses really like to see. Am I missing big by not doing fancy flourishes?

I shouldnt think so.

To be honest, im not big on flourishes either, however they can add a "flashness" to a trick or routine.

If im showing someone who knows i am a magician and have seen me do a few things then i might add one here and there, because they already know what to expect, at the same time they can see that i am practicing and improving.

Also on another note pop to the intro section and tell us a bit about yourself as well

In my opinion, no you're not. A lot of magicians think learning flourishes is just a waste of time, and that you should let the trick speak for itself. And that's how I feel. Usually people who start learning flourishes aren't interested in magic, and just want to be able to do some XCM (Extreme Card Manipulation).

I bought a video on flourishes to add to my magic. I can do a majority of them, but found I very rarely use them unless someone comes up to me and asks to see something crazy. They'll be impressed, no doubt. But the trick that I perform right afterward does a lot better.

However, some tricks have flourishes added right to them. Vapour, for example, comes with a nice flourish. I think that flourish is sweet, simple, and very appropriate. I honestly, would not like to that see Vapour performed any other way.

Of course, this is all my opinion. But I think it's safe to say, at least a couple magicians will agree with me that learning complicated flourishes, flips, and "doo-dads" is really not worth it.

As many have said before, one comes off as being a juggler, the other a magician.

Maybe for friends I might do a few fancy flourishes, but think about it like this: it really does depend on how you want your 'magic' to be perceived. If you don't mind people thinking it was all sleight of hand, then by all means throw some of that stuff in. If however you want people to believe a little bit more in it, then loose it altogether. No need to fumble the cards as anyone who's been working with them for a while picks up some dexterity, but sleights should be invisible.

After all, would you be more impressed by someone who makes your card jump to the top of the deck after zinging a bazillion piles about the room or by someone who appears unable to do any such moves. Or a coin vanish. If people know you're an expert manipulator they don't marvel at the coin disappear, they marvel at how you managed to hide it so smoothly without them noticing it.

Now I'm not saying that everyone will suddenly believe you do real magic if you avoid the sleights - but IMO leave that little bit of mystery - otherwise anything you do can be put down to sleights. Fancy moves and dextrous hands. Don't ruin the magic for them by essential saying "This is the sort of thing I'm performing with", let them marvel.

Naturally I consider my word on the matter to be gospel. Here it is:

First, there are flourishes and there are flourishes. Oh, and there
are flourishes. 3 categories in fact which seem to have all
been lumped into one.
I will go into detail over each category and describe what I feel is
the best way to deal with the three situations.


Before I go into detail I'd better explain my general philosophy about
the subject.I will only be talking close up magic here.The stage has
different rules.I believe flourishes are a double edged sword.They
have advantages but they do have disadvantages. The tricky part is to
find an intelligent way of working so that the disadvantages do not
outweigh the advantages. The main advantage is a very strong one.
Laymen love them! That's one hell of an advantage.They are attention
getting, they are ideal for working in noisy venues
because they are so visual, they spice up a routine and if the
performer has no showmanship or personality which sadly is quite
common, the flourishes will go a little way to make him entertaining.

Unfortunately, the disadvantages are quite strong too. The main
disadvantage is explained in my bible "The Royal Road to Card Magic".
That is that if flourishes are overdone, the effect of the magic is
diluted. The spectators will dismiss what you do with a silent shrug
and think "Oh, he's clever with his hands" and forget what you do very
quickly.If your tricks do require a lot of sleight of hand the
audience will be more suspicious of your actions because of the
flourishes.They will be more on their guard and will have a tendency
to catch you out or even if they don't there will be a tendency to
think "I don't know what he did but I know he did something"

If you don't believe audiences will be on their guard after a series of
brilliant flourishes try and so a classic force on somebody after
doing a Notis Cascade, for example. I'm not saying it can't be done,
I'm saying it will be more difficult.There is a psychological aspect
here which young performers tend to overlook.If you work in a rapid,
flourishy manner and are not getting the reaction you desire perhaps I
have given you a clue why.If you must use flourishes, at least slow
down a bit. Rapid actions are not natural and can arouse suspicion.
The flourishes are already working against you so don't compound the
problem.

Now before I go over the three categories let me give you a bit of
history.The "Royal Road" said flourishes were an asset if used in moderation.My problem was that I loved flourishes and could'nt do them in moderation! I'd feel guilty about my lack of discipline but laymen
gasped in admiration so I just could'nt stop. I did notice that there was a dilution of effect as I mastered more flourishes and got more skilful using them.I'd feel terribly guilty about this and always imagine disapproving looks from Hugard and Braue watching from the sky.

Especially Hugard. For some reason he frightened the life out of me.I did'nt want him to know even though he had been dead quite a while.I once confessed my feelings to Horace Jaye, an Irish magician who promptly told me to tear up the book and throw it away since it was entirely wrong. Tear up the book? Throw it away? I could'nt do that to my bible. It would be sacrilege. I would get struck down by lightning. I knew I had to form some kind of strategy so I could sleep at night. I have now formed that strategy and it has worked well for years and years and years. I flourish away but I still get massive reaction from my card magic. Sorry, If that sounds immodest. I am not bragging; it just happens to be the truth.

If you wish to hear the strategy just let me know. I am ready to pontificate about the 3 categories once I know I have an audience.

Please carry on!

Yes, please do Mark

*sits down, gets comfortable, picks up some Bikes and works on Sybils*

Kati

Please carry on Mr Lewis, I am suprised, as not having seen you work I didn't have you down as a 'flourisher'.

I tend to fall on the no flourish side of the fence........but constantly make excuses to myself to include basic fans, spreads etc. My usual excuse being that somebody who works with playing cards all the time should be expected to handel them with a degree of elegance.

I understand the distinction between stage and close up work and for close up I draw the line at lots of flashy cuts and the current trend for flashy looking D/L's I actualy find disturbing

I always find your posts full of useful information, and would read your thoughts with interest.

All the best
John

Please, go on with your explanation...

To me, up to this point, there are two categories: flourishes that give away sleight of hand skills and flourishes that don't give away sleight of hand skills!!!

LesPaul

I can't go on. My computer is bust. There is relief all over the world of magic. Hopefully in a few days I can respond.

I appear to be up in operation again.

O.K. Let's get down to business. The first category of flourish is
actually the most justifiable even though it tends to be the
flashiest. That is the flourish THAT IS NOT PART OF A TRICK. It is a
completely separate item. The other two categories of flourishes are
where the movement is done as part of a trick. These other categories
are dangerous ones for reasons just explained, but we'll come to that.

First you have to be aware of the problem.You are now. Then you have
to solve that problem.You can do this by using tricks requiring
subtlety instead of intricate sleight of hand. Not always, of course
but when you do a movey trick you do it at the right time. Perhaps after they have reacted well to your easier stuff and you haven't done any flourishes for a little while. Very good psychology after great displays of skill are using tricks which are self working especially ones that happen in their hands. If you do a whole bunch of
brilliant flourishes and then do "out of this world" which happens in
their hands the flourishes become an asset instead of a
liability.

There was a story in "Secrets of Conjuring and Magic" by
Robert Houdin (I may have the title wrong-I'm getting old) where a
chap called Torrini was very disapproving of flourishes by a younger
magician. Torrini thought they should be eliminated entirely but if
they had to be done it should be at the end of the performance
not at the beginning. Dilution of effect reason as discussed
earlier.The problem is that they are a very good opener- attention
getting just when you want it. I am a major believer in the theory of
"art that hides art" Your skill,ideally should be hidden.

Think of AlGoshman, a superb technician but all hidden away. He did allow himself a little coin roll, though.Generally though, it was the "art that hides art" Do the flashy stuff but use common sense.Do it at the right time and in the right way and the effect dilution problem will be
diminished. Always remember the potential for problems, though. If you
are not that good at flourishes and can only do a few your problems
are less. If you know a lot of flashy stuff try and use moderation and
if you can't at least do them at the right time and in the right way.

Dai Vernon was reputed to hate flourishes. Apparently, he snarled at a
kid doing some Paul Harris flourishy thing.He reputedly said "that's
the kind of thing that's killing magic today" I kind of agree with him
but we'll come to that.I am suspicious of the tales I hear about
Vernon's distaste for flourishes even though Willis Kenny, a friend of Vernon told me that the great man sneered at them and considered them to be juggling.

The reason for my scepticism is that I think he was referring to the
two categories I am going to talk about next.Another reason for my
suspicion is that I once saw a photograph of Vernon at an advanced age
holding the biggest giant fan you have ever seen in your life! I also saw a picture of him when he was younger entertaining at a table in a restaurant and he was using the self same spectactular Giant Fan.

The most spectacular flourish I do is the Notis Cascade. You'd think such
a thing would horrify Vernon. Where did I learn it? One of the Vernon
card books. Whose hands were in the photographs? Vernon, of course.
The circle of cards in "Ultimate Secrets of Magic" look pretty
flourishy to me. Vernon again. He wasn't that averse to the occasional
other category of flourish, I noticed. There was a trick called the
Notis Stop
which had a flourishy handling and belonged in the third group of
flourishes I am going to analyse.


Anyway, back to business. The second category of flourish is a more
dangerous one. Shall I go on?.......................

We need to archive your posts. Thank you very very much. A great read.

Do go on!

Kati

What an excellent post, thanks for that.

Now, as an aspiring beginner, it seems that everything I pick up and/or read says to focus on learning the flourishes. The consensus seems to be that it should be a goal to let your audience know that you're skilled with the cards, and not just some kid who learned a trick or two.

It seems to be a different thought process here.

I'm a bit surprised that there's not a single person in here who "supports" them, for lack of a better word.

Is this something I shouldn't bother taking the time to work on, unless of course, it's part of a trick? Obviously, it's interesting stuff to know on it's own -- and in my opinion, any time spent with the cards helps at growing more used to the if nothing else -- but, is it just a colossal waste of time?

Well, you should look comfortable with a pack of cards so I would learn the basic utility flourishes like ribbon spreads and fans and so on. Once you look like you know what you're doing it's more obvious to your victims that you aren't just some kid with cards.

The harder flourishes don't really have any place in magic tricks though - for example don't learn a Sybil cut unless you want to, you don't need it.

Kati