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by **BizKiTRoAcH** » Sep 13th, '06, 20:06

Am I the only one that thinks this is a rip-off?!

I learnt the "Card Warp" trick a while ago from a friend. This may be frowned upon as I didnt purchase a dvd or anything to learn it from but he said he'd teach me a good impromptu trick. He knew I was interested in magic which is why he showed it to me. He doesnt normally go around showing tricks to anyone but friends help friends out

anyway, I decided to check on ellusionist and see what new stuff was out (even though I rarely have any money to buy stuff

) and I saw "Warp One" by David Ren Jenkin. I watched the demo and I thought its a bit of a rip off really. Its exactly the same trick except instead of using a card as a cover, he uses his fingers.

Can I release a version where instead of using a card or fingers, I can use a BORROWED credit card?! :lol:

If his trick was completely different, I wouldnt be posting about it here.. but it just seems to be the exact same version I learnt with a different "cover".

by **Mandrake** » Sep 13th, '06, 21:28

It's clear you have some doubts about releasing 'your' version and that's good to hear. I think you already know the answer - it's very likely that you would be breaching copyright and leaving yourself open to legal approaches if the author decides to go down that route. If you just show your mates or perform for family and friends etc it's unlikely that anyone will know what you're doing or where the idea came from. Play for safety, keep it low profile.

by **BizKiTRoAcH** » Sep 13th, '06, 22:21

No no you must have mistook me Mandrake, i NEVER plan on releasing any kind of version of it.. I was being sarcastic

I suppose sarcasm isnt as easy online as it is offline

Edit: I re-worded my original post a bit just incase someone else think I'm talking about releasing my own version :lol:

by **moonbeam** » Sep 13th, '06, 23:12

I see where you're coming from and if this is exactly the same as Roy Walton's (I think that's his name

) version, but just uses his fingers to cover the "warp" ...... well ..... hmmm ...... I think I'm gonna release my version where a banana skin is used to cover the "warp". I'm sure mine will sell lots more as it's lots more interesting .... waffle.... waffle....

On a serious note though - I think it stinks if they can do that and get away with it :evil:

by **Mandrake** » Sep 13th, '06, 23:32

Ah - gotcha now! We need a [sark]sarcasm[/sark] feature on TM

!

by **Demitri** » Sep 14th, '06, 03:53

Well, at least they bothered themselves to mention Roy Walton in the product description. This is hardly the first time.....

Mercury isn't original, either. Penguin is also guilty of repackaging old effects as new.

However, the effect does look pretty good. Not original, no - but still pretty cool.

by **stevebo** » Sep 17th, '06, 16:28

I don't think it's a "rip-off" at all! It's taking a classic effect and pushing it to another level. Before, the trick involved the use of two cards which there is absolutely no problem with. But, an in the hands version of the trick is just so different. It's a three phase routine which is much more visual and it looks much different IMO.

With the other card warp, it would be difficult to turn the whole card over in one movement. Actually, I think you can't, unless you can demonstrate otherwise. All of David's movements are clean and visual.

This is my opinion. You can prove me wrong otherwise though

.

David Ren Jenkins wrote:That's one of the amazing things about this effect. It is practically angleproof. The only bad angle is from *directly* underneath. Sides are fine. The method actually may be different from what you think. I was performing at a trade show and Joel Bauer saw the effect. At first he thought it would be 'angly' (probably thinking of how he thought it would be done, also) until he stood at *extreme* angles, such as 10 feet directly to the left, etc. and he couldn't see a thing. I performed it many times with Joel at different sides and distances. With this handling you can feel comfortable about performing for groups of people, and it's visual enough to see from a distance, though close-up is great! Choose what angles you feel comfortable with, but I perform it completely surrounded with people looking over my shoulder.

Oh, and as far as flashing, I've never had a problem with it and I've performed this for years. (I don't see any flash on the video.) People are also focused on what is coming out from under the fingers. If someone has *really* boney fingers it is conceivable I guess, but I would tell them to notice where there fingers come apart and to smoosh them together closer. From the look of your fingers, you should be fine.

I have never had *anyone* say, "Hey I know how that is done!" or "Hey I saw something." It has served me well for years as an absolutely inexplicable effect. Give it a shot.

Steve

by **Tom Hutley** » Sep 17th, '06, 20:59

Hmn, from where I see it, magicians do this kind of thing quite a lot.

One of the first steps in creativity is variation, it helps build yourself up to creating brand new material for yourself.

To me, David isn't selling it as a new "Card Warp" effect, I think he is merely selling his presentation for it. I mean your learning his handling for it.

by **BizKiTRoAcH** » Sep 19th, '06, 01:34

stevebo wrote:I don't think it's a "rip-off" at all! It's taking a classic effect and pushing it to another level. Before, the trick involved the use of two cards which there is absolutely no problem with. But, an in the hands version of the trick is just so different. It's a three phase routine which is much more visual and it looks much different IMO.

With the other card warp, it would be difficult to turn the whole card over in one movement. Actually, I think you can't, unless you can demonstrate otherwise. All of David's movements are clean and visual.

This is my opinion. You can prove me wrong otherwise though .

Yes, the trick is being pushed to a "new level" but its just a visual new level. I dont know for sure as I dont have the DVD but I'm assuming the trick is the same as the card warp, just modified to look better.

I'm not saying this trick is bad or worse than the original. I think it is very visual and VERY effective... I just dont think its right that he uses a trick that has been around for years, modifies the handling a bit and re-sells it.

by **dat8962** » Sep 19th, '06, 01:51

Ot's a totally different presentation of Card Warp and the handling is totally different (which it would be without a second card).

In my opinion WARPONE is much stronger because of it and the restored card version just takes it to a different level. I don't think that you can appreciate this without getting the DVD.

by **Zero000** » Sep 19th, '06, 04:10

i still personally believe that the effect is also a ripoff. but thats because i seen and know how to do the orginical cardwarp, but to my friend (who has never seen cardwarp) thought it was amazing.
soo mixed reviews

by **Demitri** » Sep 19th, '06, 04:16

I think calling it a ripoff is incredibly misleading to other viewers of these forums. No - the effect is not completely original - but the handling is original.

I know it was mentioned that this is a regular card warp routine with a different cover - but even that's not really true. The cover is different, but so is quite a bit of the handling. It's the difference in cover that makes the effect stand out, and in some ways, stand apart from, the original effect.

So long as Mr. Walton is given his credit and accolades for inspiring the effect (I'm not sure the DVD does, but the Ellusionist site seems to have misplaced that info), I don't see a problem with it.

by **dat8962** » Sep 19th, '06, 16:21

Credit is given where credit is due on this DVD

by **DavidRenJenkins** » Sep 19th, '06, 22:01

Hi. I thought I would pop in and give a quick reply. This is similar to a discussion on E.

Here is what I wrote there:

I did want to interject something, since all this started from a discussion about my DVD and effect. 13 years ago when I came up with this, I contacted Roy thanking him for his effect and asked him for his permission to publish mine, and to make sure I credited everything correctly. Roy was quite a gentleman and very nice and had no problem with any of that.

Just a small point, which I don't think demeans the 'card warp' effect at all, is that it is actually a variation of Jeff Busby's "Into the Fourth Dimension...and Beyond." Jeff is the original creator of the 'warp' type effect. He did it in his closed fist with a single card. Roy added a second card and created 'Card Warp'. My effect is as much a derivation of Jeff's as it is Roy's (especially since Jeff's was done in the hand with a single card). Kudos to both of them! and a hearty 'thank you' to them and the many others that have worked on making miracles out of this brilliant concept.

David

by **The Keymaster** » Sep 19th, '06, 22:18

DavidRenJenkins wrote:
Just a small point, which I don't think demeans the 'card warp' effect at all, is that it is actually a variation of Jeff Busby's "Into the Fourth Dimension...and Beyond." Jeff is the original creator of the 'warp' type effect. He did it in his closed fist with a single card. Roy added a second card and created 'Card Warp'. My effect is as much a derivation of Jeff's as it is Roy's (especially since Jeff's was done in the hand with a single card).

David

I was going to say that earlier but couldnt remember the specifics.

I think its important variations are released, otherwise we would only have about 10 tricks to choose from

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