talkmagic.co.uk

I'm guessing here that, as amateurs of one kind or another, our idea of overrated will be very different from a professional magician who might just use a Raven or other maligned device at every performance. Essentially a Raven seems to be more at home in the street (if that's not a confusing statement!) whereas something like Oil & Water would be best performed indoors on a table. Some mentalist effects are better indoors than out so the inside worker might refer to something from a street magician's arsenal as being overrated if he can't find a use for it. Nothing conclusive there but one magi's overrated is probably another one's essential.

(I trust seige appreciates that I have resisted the urge to link being a spanner in the works with that well know brand of spanner - King Dick . And, yes, I have heard of Rigid Tools as well. In fact, I've bought and sold spare bubbles for their spirit levels!)

I'm getting over rated confused with over hyped and over enthused.

Well I'm not sure that they are that different. Dictionary says:

To overestimate the merits of; rate too highly.


which would count in over hyped and over enthused. We have to remember that like it or not, the magic world has deeply embedded within it a Sales World. Meaning that magic is not just an art form but a business. Just like football is not just a sport it's a business.

So what's my point here? My point is, that we sometimes have to consider that a magic effect, utility, device or secret, is being 'sold' to us and therefore we have to suffer at the hands of the over hype, the overestimation, the over enthusiastic, not just from the people who are doing the selling but also the people doing the buying because that enthusiasm is infective. If we're told something is incredibly good, by the makers, well-known magicians giving their seal of approval etc, then maybe just maybe we too will believe all the hype. Perhaps I'm sounding cynical but I'm not really, I'm just aware that magic is a pure artform but can be tainted by what most things get tainted by.....money. And the business of magic has something on its side that perhaps no other business I know has - it's secret weapon - literally - is that people are buying something and they don't actually know what it is they are buying. What a perfect sales situation. Do you want something amazing? Yes please. It's really amazing you're going to love it so much, I can't tell you what it is but it's incredible and only £20. Okay I'll take two!

What's GREAT about places like this forum, which could never happen on such a grand scale as this before the Internet, is that we can have discussions on products and effects, the reviews are from real people and not only that but we can argue back, discuss, and so on and probably the only way to see if something is worth the hype is to actually use it in real situations with real audiences and every performer will have different experiences. If you buy a Raven because it sounds bloody amazing and you love the way DB utilized it that's one thing, but if you never use it because it's impractical, fussy, not clicking with the audience, that's another. Nothing is that good until you can actually use it yourself to serve your means.

So to finish, all I'll say is that next time a new effect comes on the market surrounded by the biggest buzz since The Swarm, step back and wait.

Actually, one thing I ought to add, just in case I've got anyone's back up is that not all Business is bad business. A great deal of magic sales, including the maker and retailer, is done respectfully and provides a good service to us hungry magicians. But there will always be the few, as in any business, that will prey.

Some good points there.

Quite often the buyer has that same look a 16 year old has in his eyes when he's looking at a small hatchback with fat wheels on a car salesmans forecourt (drool dripping from his mouth onto the fake fat back pipe).
I often put myself squarly in that bracket.
I agree the good thing about a forum that is allowed to be honest is it has the ability to break through the hype but then if we are caught up in that hype it might be tricky.
People need to think about what they already do and if it fits I guess. Isn't it hard to be objective when some things sound so good though?
I have been caught out and I can only blame myself, is what I'm trying to say I guess.
I am glad there is somewhere to read about stuff that isn't on the site that is selling it.
But as long as they have bucket seats, 20 inch rims, lowered springs and turbos, I for one will have a bed booked at bupa.
(what AM I talking about, time to go me thinks)


BaB

It has to be said, I agree with the 'point of sale temptation' thing.

I'm a fiend for impulse buying, and I also like my 'boys toys' (and talking of cars, I've just taken my 405bhp Cosworth off the road for winter storage - and you're right about 16 year olds - they practically have to cold shower when I drive by, especially with the 3.5" straight-through pipe gurgling away and the whoosh of the dump valve ripping their ears out...)

Sorry, but I miss it... back to the practicalities of the Range Rover for 6 months

Anyway, this whole 'temptation/desire' buying thing is exactly why I think that retail stores and high street shops will always win over online selling... sure, online retailing is cheaper, quicker and more convenient - but the thrill of walking into a magic shop and seeing something being demoed and thinking 'I want that!' is a feeling you can't emulate online.

Same with supermarkets, clothes shops, retail stores etc.

And as far as overrated being confused with overhyped, they really are one and the same. Far too many other online magic resources 'hype' things before they're even available. That's called pre-marketing. You can get a feel for the market before an item even hits the shelves.

The other thing to add is that overrating can consist of a few variables: Chinese whispers, marketing bullshite, ignorance, dishonest advertising, heresay, plugging, the list goes on.

When selecting an item for that special purpose, it's always good to buy on either experience or recommendation - not hype.

The old phrase used when I was training as a designer was 'If it doesn't look good, it isn't'... and with magic - I believe that to be also true.

And to say that magic is a business is true to an extent - but much magic is actually LEARNED or HANDED DOWN - it's only the quick-fix gimmicks and stage illusions which are inherently dear - and the prices are justified by the manufacturers having the monopoly over the rest of the market, because they hold not only the keys to the design/method, but also the performance rights.

Personally, I am duped all the time. I am easily drawn in - hook, line and sinker. And I spend money like water on things that make me happy. Guilty as charged.

And yes, I frequently buy things which I then discover are overrated - but, that's the danger of the fast-paced, hyper-retail, mock-marketing capitalist society we live in.

And the problem is, sometimes, just by buying an 'overrated' item, you can perpetuate it's popularity.

Hmmm... feel cheated, now!

ahhh the burble of air being forced from a chamber of fire, sigh.
I'm an old alfa man myself, clover leaf boxer, I love it more than my wife.
Good job I'm not married huh.

I agree with everything you said with regards to retail therapy, if it didn't work the tills/checkouts wouldn't be lined with sweets I guess and every time I went to the supermarket I would't have to hunt for something that's moved again.
I almost have to stay away from magic shops I spend so much money and don't feel guilty enough to not do it again. I made a choice near the start of my magical journey not to buy any gimmicks until I had worked through RRTCM and Bobo, just to stop myself buying stuff I didn't need and to force me to have a little patience.
I guess I am at a stage now where gimmicks are interesting me more and more and I would say I buy things 50% to find out how it works, 25% because it sounds like something I would like to use and 25% to flatter myself (yes I am that sad). Am I alone in this?

BaB

BaBaBoom wrote: I would say I buy things 50% to find out how it works, 25% because it sounds like something I would like to use and 25% to flatter myself (yes I am that sad). Am I alone in this?

BaB

I don't think you are BaB.

However I'll be a little more mathematical. I buy things 100% because it sounds like something I would use. Always on the quest to find the perfect set. Then within that 100% I would have a subset where 50% I buy to find out how it works and 50% because it'll make me special.
I've never bought anything as a source of flattery yet, I'm waiting for the Talking Raven.

lol
would the talking raven shout swiiish as it did it's job?

Probably but as long as the two headed talking raven doesn't start fighting amongst itself.

I suppose tjhe raven isnt that bad, i recently saw a very clever idea using a raven and a minature chop cup....... may try it myself

itresting boywonder please do tell, a link would be nice if you have one.

Basically he said that performing was thirsty work so he poured a drink into a cup (chop cup) drank some and said it needed shaking, upon shaking it the cup dissapeared. It wasnt done by a tv magician but someone in my local magic circle. what do you think of it?

NIce
I do think that's something that often happens with the raven, people have only seen it do the coin and that's mainly all people do with it.

Naturaly I know you all have a better imagination than that

BaB

nice idea bit complicated though useing a chop cup and a raven when you could use something simpler like some streatchy stuff and a well know anatomical ingredient.

still a chop and raven gives posibilities for a coin in cuo disaperence hmm may make a post about this in the routine section who should i credit the idea too.