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I am new to theese forums, but I have done my homework and searched but cannot find some answers. I know there are a lot of posts about theese, and i've read most of them but still confused. Dont know which one to buy.

This is the most important to me. I need to be able to do it in a regular, non-button down short sleeve shirt. I dont know if its possable but ifso which one would be the best for me?

I would like to end up clean, but want it to be undetectable. Also the effects I'm going for would be simple vanishes, exchanges and maybe pk effects and moving objects.

Any ideas, pls help.
Thanks.

You might want to check out Subterfuge which can be performed in a short sleeve shirt, or no shirt at all if you like!
http://www.talkmagic.co.uk/ftopic10902.php&highlight=subterfuge

Oh this could be a can of worms you are opening up.

I own the both of them, well I have the M5 and the RavenX2.
I use them both for different effects, coin vanishes I use the Raven.
Moving objects I use the M5, so the question you need to ask yourself is:

What do I want to do more?
A. Move objects
B. Vanish a coin

If it is move objects and the like, go for the M5 or similar gimmick.
If it is vanish a coin, go for the Raven or buy the book by J.B.Bobo "Modern Coin Magic" it will teach you real coin slieght of hand.

That is about it, I didn't have time to write an essay like someone might do for you, but I hope that helps a little bit.

Thanks for the comments. I looked into the SMS but I dont wear rings, it just wouldnt feel right to me, I dont know , I know it sounds stupid.

I think I would like to move objects more but the biggest thing for me is doing it in a regular short sleeve shirt. Can the M5 be used like that? And i've heard you dont end up as clean.

I dont want to dwell on old topics but I'm about to buy a M5 I think and want to make sure I can proform in short sleeves and show my hands clean after. Could someone clarify for me pls.

Attempting not to give away the M5...

Sure, you could do it in short sleeves but then you'd have to get very creative or be in a table situation where your legs could hold the gimmick. In other words, you wouldnt be able to use your hands to create the effect.

If you're trying to do vanishes, the M5 can be very messy, but movement is of course, always clean when it comes to your hands (no threads or anything).

fireshower wrote:Attempting not to give away the M5...

I don't think a single magician on this forum...anywhere for that matter, does not know how the Raven/M5 and all related products work.


Especially when everyone says keep away from computers...heh.


I have no comments on this subject though as I own neither...I am going to get one of these or a PK ring when I get the money and think I have the time to practice these because, when it comes to moving objects, I can only imagine it being an art of its own and taking months if not years to perfect.

Well thanks for the reply. I think i'll make my GF buy me the M5 for the holidays comming up. Since the raven is cheap enough now, I can always pick it up too. I'm a little dissapointed that I cant do stand up magic in short sleeves with the M5 though. But thanks again.

I am the proud new owner of the monster bertha.. m5 on steroids!!

bizarre mentalism type pk effects.. don!!

vanishes.. clean as whistle in one respect but ur dirty as paris hilton!!


Unless i am guessing incorrectly with respect to vanishes.. though Id use the raven for vanishes.. just so much cleaner.. like George Michael.. just think poof!! and its gone..!!

I.D wrote:like George Michael.. just think poof!! and its gone..!!

That takes me back some...

"Did you hear what happened when George Michael became a magician? He disappeared with a poof..."

I.D you have me thinking about the monster bertha now instead of the M5. Can you still move random objects around the same as M5? What is it the same thing just stronger??

both the Raven and the M5 (or variations thereof) are useful tools. however as has been stated earlier, not so much for the same things. the M5's feature is "power", while the Raven's main benefit is "stealth". if you are looking for something that can do coin vanishes AND PK effects, get the M5 and put some thought into the best place to locate it. if on the other hand you want the "best" item to do BOTH coin vanishes AND PK effects... regret to say, you really need both.

I would get the Monster Bertha. Does the same job as the M5 but makes the M5 seem like a fridge magnet!!

Well at least thats what I hear.. all I know is if your looking for POWER, Monsta Bertha certainly gives you that.. an more. The package is HUGE.. the Bertha si HUGE.. ur ego will be.. HUGE..

10 minutes ago at work I made my team freak out while i was causing a sharpie and a match to fly around on the table while both my hands were empty and my sleeves rolled up!!

I told them 2 minutes prior that I thought I could hear my Grandads voice.. SPOOKY!!

I would honestly get both... Monsta Bertha from NUMS and you can pick up the raven off ebay quite cheap now..

Like Bobby cat rightly said.. Monsta Bertha = POWER .. Raven = Ninja type Stealth!!

And I am a proud owner of the M5

The Monster Bertha is 1inch thicker, I don't know about the strength, I think its about the same.

The M5 great for moving things, vanishing..well yeah sure you can, but end up clean no.

Moving things great, you can do it in short sleeves if its somewhere else

But stay away from radiators and metal sides of table legs...you will make a loud CLANK!...

At the moment I love the M5 ^^ great "toy" too

But I would also advise to get the Raven, I mean everyone has that, personally I not one of my favourites, but I haven't used it in a while, it was when I was still new. Might get it out sometime ^^.

I also say get both, your decision on M5 or Monster Bertha though.

I have M5
I.D. has Monster Bertha

If you look in review requests should see some posts by us recently. Will post review soon after I have had a bit mroe expierience with it.

K

Thanks, appreciate it.

what you gonna go for,,,>>???