talkmagic.co.uk

There are several at Alakazam.
http://www.alakazam.co.uk/acatalog/Patr ... .html#a776
Anyone familiar with any/all of them?

I'm forty quid curious...i've ordered two of them, but the are all on order unfortunately...

i shall tempt you with an initial first impressions review once i get the little rascals...

All I see in these books are rehashed works and ideas that have been around for years, coupled with poor grammar and spelling errors. I have yet to read anything ground breaking including his Ring of Truth effect, which is just an old body language ruse that again has been around and used by many for years.

There are one or two good ideas within the other books, though I feel that even the couple of good ones are not thought out or explored enough to be published. It's like so many other books and ideas that are rushed to market. Redford's books, like many other books, DVDs and effects out there, get way too much "pushing" from others that in turn are pushing their Tupperware. It appears to be a "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours, love fest" when it comes to some items, Redford's included.

This practice only hurts us and saturates the market with overrated, underdeveloped under-performed c*** (not the best). Along with the grammar/spelling errors that I spoke of, which by the way in absolutely, unequivocally UNACCEPTABLE in these days and times and the weak material, I would say that his work is HIGHLY OVERRATED.

so...are you saying you didnt like them then?

EDIT: http://www.online-visions.com/craigbrowning/0610.html

Our very own Mr. Browning has the above to say...I'm not keen on the gentleman's hat (not Craig's, if he wears one)...Redford's...but that's hardly a means of judgement...

abraxus wrote:I'm forty quid curious

There's something strange going on in the world if you're buying books that I've mentioned.

you could say..im buy-curious....

sweet lord, that really is an especially poor joke..shame on you all for reading it...

let's wait for Craig's rough tongue shall we...

note: i appear to be full of entendres this afternoon, sorry....

abraxus wrote:so...are you saying you didnt like them then?

EDIT: http://www.online-visions.com/craigbrowning/0610.html

Our very own Mr. Browning has the above to say...I'm not keen on the gentleman's hat (not Craig's, if he wears one)...Redford's...but that's hardly a means of judgement...

I am defiantly saying I didn't like them. There was nothing ground breaking, not enough within the covers that make the book useful. If I am to purchase a book, for the price he is asking, it better have some meat. Some new and creative thinking, not old ideas repackaged. And if I am paying $40 for a book, it damn well better have gone through a spell check and live proof reading before it hits the market.

I stick by my original statement about magic/mentalism publications (including these), and I think it's worth paraphrasing again....

It appears to be a "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours, love fest" when it comes to some items. This practice only hurts us and saturates the market with overrated, underdeveloped and under-performed poop.

if you have the time then, can i ask that you review one of them for us please?

It appears to be a "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours, love fest" when it comes to some items. This practice only hurts us and saturates the market with overrated, underdeveloped and under-performed poop.

That applies to any published material. But you don't have to go by what other magician's say about new effects (remember Derren Brown claiming to be 'completely fooled' by friend Andy Nyman's Diceman?) because you've got the comments and reviews by genuine customers who actually own the thing, posted on fora such as talkmagic.

Slamming it as 'nothing groundbreaking' isn't as effective as posting your own review.

With all do respect, I don't find the material even worthy of my time to sit and write an entire review. If I did, it would sound like a long drawn out bashing of each individual thing. I think I mentioned some of the major flaws. If a book isn't written well in the first place, what's the point.

It's much easier just to say I didn't like it at all. This of course is my opinion. I am sure others will disagree, but that's okay.

As far as going by what other say, in a way, it's very important especially when dealing with a unknown author. The problem is that even if the material sux, some authors will state otherwise just to get a good plug for themselves next time around.

As a side note, I have seen this guy try to work his material and I was not impressed with the material or the performer. Therefor my views could be jaded. However, I still gave him the opportunity to change my mind as I purchased the books after I saw him perform...didn't work.

fuma wrote:The problem is that even if the material sux, some authors will state otherwise just to get a good plug for themselves next time around.

This can't be the reason for, for example, Banachek giving the books a thumbs up though, surely? It's not like he's going to be thinking, 'Man, this is going to pay dividends - I'll be able to get a positive Patrick Redford quote on my next product. That's key to a man in my position.' Also, when it comes to spelling and grammar, that's sad and annoying, but not necessarily pertinent (unless it means you can't understand what the hell the person is trying to explain). 13 Steps is leprous with grammatical errors - in fact, name five magicans you've ever read who use the possessive "its" correctly.

Which isn't to say I'm dissing your opinion on the material. I'm not, nor am I agreeing with it - I've no idea, that's why I posted the request here.

I find in most interesting how some folks think and see things.

I own ALL of Patrick's books and have used a good deal of his material as have MANY major names in the business. He is a very clever, reputable individual that has delivered some very thought provoking and potent ideas that are most worthy of study IF you are not just looking for a trick.

Many that have jumped onto the Mentalism Bandwagon in the past few years have retained the curse of thinking like a magician when looking at it and in so doing, fail to see the greater picture. Magician's think about doing tricks NOT creating the miraculous or experiential as it were. Too, most "Magicians" are cynical and thus, too jaded to comprehind the impact of this sort of work on the lay-public when framed and presented PROPERLY (as in, not like you would a magic trick).

Patrick is one of the up and coming "gurus" of mentalism and in my experience, has much more value in what he says than some of the better known and more heralded authors that charge an extra 30% on their books just to sate their egos.

I respect Craig's comments but have to disagree. Also let me state that I have been a full-time performer for well over 8 years. Acting, stand-up comedy/improv and magic. I have been performing mentalism for around 2-3, I am NOT one of the magicians out there looking for mentalism "tricks" I have my show, my repertoire and it works. I simply enjoy reading what others come up with.

Sexton Blake, I do agree with you on the Banachek topic, but whole heartedly disagree with your statement,
"Also, when it comes to spelling and grammar, that's sad and annoying, but not necessarily pertinent "

Sure I can make out and ignore the grammar and spelling errors, but I can do that reading my 9 year old niece's school papers too. If it's supposed to be a professional product and being that a book is nothing more than text, grammar and spelling then yes, those things are at the top of my list. If one can't spell or write properly, one should not put out a book. At the very least have someone that can do it for you.

I have no problem agreeing to disagree. I personally didn't find anything of value in the books and again, maybe I am jaded because I have seen laymen watch his performance with a look on their faces as if to say, "yeah whatever...can we leave now!"

fuma wrote: whole heartedly disagree with your statement,
"Also, when it comes to spelling and grammar, that's sad and annoying, but not necessarily pertinent "

Sure I can make out and ignore the grammar and spelling errors, but I can do that reading my 9 year old niece's school papers too. If it's supposed to be a professional product and being that a book is nothing more than text, grammar and spelling then yes, those things are at the top of my list. If one can't spell or write properly, one should not put out a book. At the very least have someone that can do it for you.

It's drifting off topic, and not something I feel strongly about in this specific sense, but... It would please me to the point of my emiting a slight fizzing sound if English usage were better across the board, not just within magic books (I am repeatly hearing such horrors as 'one of the only...' on the BBC news, Lord help us), so I'm certainly not championing illiteracy. However, while the publication or not of many mainstream books is (supposedly) dependent on the ability of the writer to write, sometimes the justification for a text being worthy to exist lies elsewhere - the stories of Holocaust survivors, say, don't stand or fall on the teller's syntax. Another area is specialist technical knowledge or information. Now, mainstream publishers would get a ghostwriter to pen a fantastic Olympic swimmer's exciting tale of success: and blamelessly so - it's no more a swimmer's business to write well than it is a writer's to swim elegantly. However, this costs money. As does copy editing and proof reading. Those costs are absorbable in mass market books, but with the tiny print runs of magic books that's not feasible. That being the case, I'd rather have Corinda with grammatical errors than no Corinda at all, much as I may tut to myself as I read.

When it comes to the manner by which so many in today's world insist on torturing and destroying the English language I don't side too much with those that say "Ignorance is bliss"... if that were true we would have far fewers wars on this planet (especially considering who's starting them). but fuma is 100% on the mark when it comes to the idea of being an effective communicator when you are an "entertainer". My personal favorite are the intellects calling themselves "Mentalists" and "Linguists" (even NLP "experts") and in their text they don't know the difference between saying hear or here, let alone there, their and they're...

How in the hell can you think for the briefest of seconds that anyone in their right mind is going to buy into such a line of bull if in fact, they are educated and capable of using language disciplines at above a 4th and 5th grade level.

Oh! Please don't start down this path about how language evolves. The reality to it all is that people are freaking lazy. Thanks to the computer and lazy teachers we no longer have people taking pride in their penmanship let alone spelling abilities and other linguistic skills. Because of things like these video feeds on line, everyone is suffereing from the delusion that they are someone important when it truth, they're just a bunch of nobodies masturbating on line... not in the literal sense mind you, but figuratively so as to stroke their egos and thoughts of self-importance.

Yes, I'm being quite rude and harsh but your perception of my being such generally suggests (if we are to be "experts" on the whole psychology thing) that you're recognizing a bit of personal truth or GUILT in regards to the topic at hand. If it don't apply to you stop letting my words live rent fee in your consciousness.

As to Partrick's books I'm betting there is a much deeper and more personal issue around fuma's opinion but I will not delve into that matter in that it does not matter; we are all allowed to have our views for whatever reason. I have many close friends that I argue with and have deep disagreements with regularly. For an example, there is a well known writer in Mentalism who works as a hypnotherapist during the day. He's by no stretch of the imagination a "seasoned" performer when it comes to Mentalism but because he knows many of the big names who appreciate his theories and philosophies, he arrogantly produces books that retail for about 60% more than they are really worth (in that a good 45% of each composition is little other than personal anecdote). I appreciate much of what I've gained in reading his materials but I have a very sour taste in my mouth when it comes to promoting them as many do, because I have had a very bad experience with the man directly, aside from my critique of his writing style... fuma may be dealing with similar sensations... it don't matter... at least he and I tend to agree on one thing that is more important than the content of Patrick's books