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[Deleted]

I get a bit bent when it comes to this sort of thing.

Firstly, are you a certified Hypnotist or just some fool that's read the latest Derren Brown, Richard Busch or Jermay book and thinks himself competent enough to bear the title?

Yes, I'm being a jerk but with good reason; Hypnosis isn't something to be played with and like NLP, too many people think that because they can spell it, they are one and they know what they are talking about. Richard Busch gets rather nit-picky on this in his latest two books and rightfully so; the man is a certified hypnotherapist with over three decades invested into his TRADE and to him, it is very insulting to see some of the "stunts" people present on stage under said label... especially those who haven't been responsible enough to get some solid, formal training.

I was introduced to Hypnotism in the 70s by a man named Jon Lutrek in Chicago. I've had private classes with Arnold Furst as well as Ormond McGill and Jerry Valley in technique and of course, the art of stage hypnosis (of which I've done extensive research). But I am not a certified Hypnotist and probably never will be in that it's not really my thing (just an area of personal curiosity) yet, I have more training behind me and a greater understanding as to what hypnotism is and isn't along side the obligations we have an entertainers using the idea of hypnotism as our "theme", that 90% of those who bring it up so randomly and matter-of-factly in threads or conversation.

I'm not singling you out stepSeven, you just happened to be the person making the kind of post that triggered my rant. Please don't take it personal, that is not my intent. Rather, I want to instill in those who have an interest in this field, to actually learn it and learn about it; get some training and if you plan on doing it as your show, get certified! It adds to your image, your sense of authority and will create a greater sense of trust between you and your clients.

I haven't yet read stepseven's post so I cannot comment on it. I did read what Craig had to say though.

I don't think you need "certification" and in fact I know some very good stage hypnotists who have never had any. In fact I think the majority work without this mystic approval which doesn't mean a light anyway.

Since I am not daft enough to believe in hypnotism in the first place I am also not daft enough to believe you need any psychological "training" to learn something that doesn't even exist. The only training you need is common sense and loads of nerve. And you have to study "hypnosis" properly-that is the type that goes with inverted commas.

I have studied this type extensively and thoroughly enough to be presently writing a book about it. However I have done away with all the psychological claptrap and got to the meat of the thing. You do have to have some entertainment experience to pull the thing off properly. And you do have to study at least in an informal way.

There are indeed courses and some of them may be helpful. If you can find an individual mentor to teach you so much the better but these peopel are in short supply. Quite frankly I taught myself from books (principally Ormond Mc'Gills work) and nobody gave me the slightest clue about how to do it.

I then practiced it on live audiences at psychic fairs where the psychics do free lectures to promote their services. It took me a fair while to get the hang of it but get the hang of it I did.

One of the greatest stage hypnotists of the twentieth century (who is mentioned a couple of times in the Ormond Mc'Gill books) told me the whole thing was a load of bunkum.

A bit like the idea of getting "certification".

Craig: Thank you for your considered opinions. If you would permit me to deal with the rant side of your post before commenting on the more serious issues..

>>I get a bit bent when it comes to this sort of thing.
I wouldn't let this "sort of thing" get you too bent, your viewpoint could become restricted to that of your own *ahem* navel.

>> are you a certified Hypnotist or just some fool that's read the latest Derren Brown..
I will ignore the equivoque and tell you that I am neither. You admit to not being a certified hypnotist, may I ask if you have read Derren Brown's latest book? If not, then by your own measure you are just some fool.


On a more serious note, I think you have made some very valid points:

>>I'm being a jerk
Agreed

>> it is very insulting to see some of the "stunts" people present on stage under said label [hypnotism/NLP]
I really do take your point. The aim of this stunt (and I would not claim it is any more than that) was never to denigrate the trade of the Hypnotherapist or even the stage Hypnotist. Rather, I picked up on the Hypnotism theme as a cover for the presentation of a 2nd rate PK effect.

You have to admit this whole area is very provocative (it's raised two spleen vents already!) and far more engaging than "Hey, watch me make these coins twitch with a Neo."

After reflection on your comments I will be dropping the Hypnotism angle from my patter and going with more of a Marketing/Brainwashing approach - I think I will still get the group questioning their perception of what has just taken place in front of them (which what I'm really aiming at with all this): "Did we really see that photo move or have we been sold?"

>> Please don't take it personal, that is not my intent.
I most certainly haven't, if you could take my feeble quips in the same spirit.

I don't wish to alienate - I acknowledge the knowledge and experience on this forum and hope to continue learning from it.


Mark: Respectfully, could you do the Hypno-Celebrity-Deathmatch on another thread? Feel free to read and comment on my post though!

I am not having any "death match". I have been arguing with Reverend Browning for years and we are both well used to it and of course neither of us takes any notice of the other since we are both egomaniacs. We ARE mentalists after all and every good mentalist is an arrogant egomaniac. It is after all one of the rules of the profession.

On the other hand it appears to be you and Craig who are having a "death match" as you morbidly term it. I shall let you and he get on with it since amusement is always welcome.

I have now read your original post and it doesn't seem to have much to do with hypnotism anyway so I have no idea how I got into this. It seems to be merely a presentation of some sort of trick and you are bringing hypnotism into it. I don't see any particular problem with doing that.

I now have a feeling that Craig didn't really read your post either and thought you were yapping about hypnosis for real.

Since nobody on this thread seems to know what on earth they are all arguing about I am going elsewhere to amuse myself.

Cheeriebye.

Good ol' mark - your comments always amuse. Hows the book going anywho. Any idea when you think it'll be ready? A

I think the "Wit and Wisdom" book is almost ready. You will not have to wait long.

As for my hypnosis book that will take several centuries.

Ok, deleted the OP. It's irrelevant that no one's read it now, you guys BEING mentalists knew what I was thinking aways.

Enjoy the chit-chat

You original message has been deleted. Maybe you could rephrase your question by refering to standard concepts and quote relavant litterature in mentalism. This way it should be possible to understand your question without you giving anything away.

Nevermind Soren.

This post was never about mentalism - it was about a "trick" I was putting together that suggested to the participants they had been hypnotised during the effect and they'd only imagined what they thought they saw during the effect.

The post got a knee-jerk reaction from the Rev's who being so knowing and all seeing didn't even bother to read the opening post before commenting.

The thread descended into random jibber-jabber from that point on.

Here's my contribution: Het Craig, why do you let that fat guy behind you keep messing with your head?

Mods: Please kill, sin-bin or send this thread to the Dove's Head as you see fit!