talkmagic.co.uk

First things first... most everyone that's supporting our friend in learning this technique WRONG has little to no experience in it and too, has never had to use it as a means for making their living... I don't tell you all how to do your blasted card tricks, please don't tell people how to do a job I've done longer than most of you have been breathing.

Firstly, what PC is talking about is NICHE READING not Cold Reading... of course, most of you wouldn't know that in that you only know what Rowland & Co. have been spewing for the past few years and too, more than a couple of you on this thread are admitted supporters of the "let's keep the real deal suppressed" campaign (as in, relying on the more reliable and genuine information out there from Cassidy, Webster, Martin, etc.)

Cold Reading isn't something you can half-ass, either you learn to do it and do it right or leave it alone for the people that are serious and not "just dabbling in it" You also, as with everything in life, listen to those that have been around it and who actually specialize in it vs. striving to use it just to get their name out there and ACT like an authority for the sake of promotions and book sales.

There are no short cuts if you are going to learn something and learn to do it right... that's the bottom line.

happy new year Craig!

i don't believe anyone is trying to make him learn anything, we're only offering our opinions....and encouragement...

EDIT: by the way, that Ted Andrews fella, he's of the belief he is a genuine psychic, so on some levels, he's got some value in his writings, even if you dont agree on whether those "powers" exist or not..he has no magic (within our terms) background either...a book written by a working, proffesional 'real-deal' psychic on how to develop these abilities...

I think the best thing for him to do is to get a little book by Richard Webster called "cold reading for magicians" or at least I think that is the title.

It will tell him how to incorporate cold reading into magic tricks and I think even gives a few effects.

I am an expert cold reader and have done literally thousands and thousands of readings for money. Yet I never incorporate it into my magic. It just doesn't fit my style. I just want people to laugh and have fun and gasp in astonishment at my wondrous sponge balls and card tricks. Somehow the cold reading doesn't seem to fit. For me it slows things up.

Even when I do mentalism I don't usually bother. The exception is when I do pseudo psychometry where it fits perfectly.

However at psychic fairs I will pull out all the stops and will even do the svengali deck to draw in people. I sell them too. It is very effective indeed and stops me going insane because it gets quite a lot of laughs.

There ain't too much in the way of laughs in the psychic business.

I used to upset all the other psychics by doing the sponge balls and saying to people "these other psychics use crystal balls. I am different. I use sponge balls. Can you see any visions in it?" I would then give them the sponge ball to peer in to see if they could see anything. So far nobody has and I am not sure why. I then take back the sponge ball and do my wondrous routine which gets them all laughing and upsets the other psychics with the noise.

They used to complain a lot about my "circus atmosphere" until they got used to me.

I think my Buddha through the table (I didn't have a glass handy) was the last straw. They probably deemed it disrespectul to the poor old Buddha who has gone through more tables at psychic fairs than I have had hot dinners.

mark lewis wrote:I used to upset all the other psychics by doing the sponge balls and saying to people "these other psychics use crystal balls. I am different. I use sponge balls. Can you see any visions in it?" I would then give them the sponge ball to peer in to see if they could see anything. So far nobody has and I am not sure why. I then take back the sponge ball and do my wondrous routine which gets them all laughing and upsets the other psychics with the noise.

You've just made my day

Another thing I do at the fairs is when I sell svengali decks I say "you don't have to be Houdini to be able to do this. Which is just as well because he's dead!" This gets a laugh and I follow it up by saying "mind you there are people in here that can get in touch with him" This gets another laugh and assorted frowns from all the neighbouring psychics. One looked very peeved and said "I heard that!"

They deem that I am making fun of them which of course I am.

When I did hypnosis lectures at the psychic fair I would get revenge on the psychics I didn't like by giving suggestions to people that they had lost their belly buttons and that certain psychics in the fair had stolen them. I instructed them to go up to the psychic and demand their belly button back even if they were in the middle of a reading.

Alas I had to give that up when all hell broke loose. I have always been a paragon of tact and diplomacy.

Apologies folks, I had no idea that I would stir up such a hornet's nest.

In my apparent ignorance, I'd assumed that the best way to learn is to do (that's a philosophy that's worked for me in just about every other field).

So I was really just asking directions to the nursery slopes, so I don't collide with a great gnarly tree on my first descent.

I'll get my coat.

Pete

Just to point that yes, I do work as a professional tarot reader and have done so for 20 years. I was doing readings a long time before I ever got into magic with a small "c". So "harumph" to Craig!

Throws cape around shoulder and stomps out through a suitably gothic looking door.

pcwells wrote:Apologies folks, I had no idea that I would stir up such a hornet's nest.

hmm - This is nowhere near a hornet's nest - these are the nursery slopes

Must be the time of year.

Everyone's in Panto mode.

OH YES THEY ARE!

pcwells - don't apologise, everyone should be entitled to chip in with their points of views and experience, whatever the level(s)...

i don't think there's anything as "definitive" really, there's always more knowledge out there I'm sure...

i wasn't going to say this, but i will just so you can see where I'm coming from - i am actually from a line of those cuddly little cockney women who read tea-leaves, palms and tarot...and the occasional psychic vision...the real deal so to speak...they never charged, they never entertained, they helped on a low-key basis...(that's why i posted a question recently about would real psychics entertain)...

they learned by doing so to speak...from a very young age actually..12yrs old one was when she had her first time of the month and shortly after her first psychic flash...

i've been told umpteen stories about them all, some are very interesting..but i still reserve the right to approach the whole thing my way, taking a little slice from here, a cup of something else there, and a pinch of salt with it all...

...there's more than one way to read a cat I'm sure...just my views....

EDIT: Craig said - "I don't tell you all how to do your blasted card tricks, please don't tell people how to do a job I've done longer than most of you have been breathing." ....hmmm, maybe you should? there's a whole heap of psychological and mental effects that use cards...by Cassidy, Busch, Webster, the list goes on...

pcwells wrote:In my apparent ignorance, I'd assumed that the best way to learn is to do (that's a philosophy that's worked for me in just about every other field).

Experience is a great teacher, so don't ever stop learning.

For the record, I became a tarot reader at the age of 13 and quickly became very good simply by doing. After a period of guilt at what I saw as simply lying, I now pursue it and other areas of mentalism and magic to popular demand from a psychological viewpoint as well as studying the classics and continuing to learn by doing.

Can I butt into all this business to answer the poor fellow's question directly?!

Yes, there are plenty of effects that do exactly what you are looking for. For instance, a favourite of mine for exactly this reason is Luke Jermay's Cold Emotion, in "7 Deceptions". Won't go into the workings for obvious reasons, but the presentation can take the form of an in depth reading with regard to a past memory. Ideal learning slopes as if you've got a surefire safety net. You could do far worse than to check it out.

Farlsborough wrote:Can I butt into all this business to answer the poor fellow's question directly?!

Yes, there are plenty of effects that do exactly what you are looking for. For instance, a favourite of mine for exactly this reason is Luke Jermay's Cold Emotion, in "7 Deceptions". Won't go into the workings for obvious reasons, but the presentation can take the form of an in depth reading with regard to a past memory. Ideal learning slopes as if you've got a surefire safety net. You could do far worse than to check it out.

Great! THANKS!!!

Hey Pete,

I’m disappointed by those that are ignoring the fact that there ARE subtle ways to safely practice cold reading.

Don’t get me wrong, I agree with Craig on the artful side of it. It is not an entry way to the world of mind reading. It is a strategy for applying this basic knowledge.

With that said I am going to have complete confidence that you ARE well read. Opposed to someone who has read 15 pages worth of online information and are posting bulletins saying "I JUST CANT SEEM TO HIT THE TARGET!!"

It’s a very VAGUE craft that DOES take years of studying and experience to push it past its territory into something useful and accurate. It is a process of building off of a conversation that will be different with each and every person. But it is as legitimate of a reading as the "real" thing, in the aspect that you ARE gaining and conveying traits and insights about a particular person.

I imagine some might squinch at my stone cold labeling of cold reading as “vague” but it truly WILL be vague when you first learn it. Really there’s no argument about it in that respect. It takes plenty of fine tuning throughout the years to produce an solid, accurate reading.

Try this routine out,

First off, there is a great version full with wording and phrasing on tape 2 of the “Wonder Readings” system by Rex Sikes & Kenton Knepper. As you may know, both of these figures are very well experienced in the art of reading so they have provided highly practicle applications of how to use them in this series. Consult “Wonder Readings” for their personal expansion on this trick/reading.

Heres my spin,

I usually find cold reading to be much easier between two people that are in a relationship. Shortly the reason being,

two people have more information to offer, they are usually more susceptible to participate and agree because they are trying to please their partner, it is easier to control resistance to the movement, you’re able to focus the reading on profiling what quality of relationship they have rather than the specific profile of a personality, and lastly its much more thoughtful and meaningful to the persons being read.

This being said, I have two decks of cards, red and blue, on the table to which I point asking them at them both to pick up whichever they like. Noting exactly what manner they pick up the card deck greatly contributes to the later cold reading. This varies widely, they could have gone for the same deck and one of them resolve to allow the other to have it, they may pick up the deck closest to them at the same time, they may fight over one deck, they may play steal the other persons cards …there’s many ways this could work, and if you pertain this information to the actual relationship it could stretch the reading so much further.

Once they have the decks and are back to back with one another, I fan spectator one's deck face up in front of him and ask him to touch the first card on the “strongest impulse he has” (not going into the exact script, but you build this up so that it makes doing the classic force so much easier face up. While really any force can come into play as long as the cards I face up, I feel the classic the most appropriate for the wording). I have him place the card in his pocket.

I do the same thing with his partner and force the same card on her from her deck. Having her pocket it.

I continue to go into a reading.

And I apply the reading directly from what cards I know they both have, and them thinking they both have different selections. I tell them that they chose that card for a reason and that every card and suit has different meanings. I word it in a way to make it appear that they have different cards, but that they both link in a particular way I am going to soon reveal to them.

I tend to direct the reading with what I observed when I asked them to both choose a deck and with impressions I receive from them, and of course with universal principles that apply to every relationship. Slowly it boils down to they are very alike and compatible, ...as well as their cards. I have them pull the cards out only to show that they chose the two very same ones.

The kicker being a line such as “so what’s yours is his and what’s yours is hers” at which point I motion for them to turn over their matching cards only to show that the backs are the color of their partner’s deck.

This is a truly magical and romantic effect, which allows one to base their reading on a visual platform. Allowing the force of the reading to have much more weight in terms of impact. The reading can be as short or long as you choose and is has great service when it comes to practice. Even if you feel not completely up to par there is always the effect of the actual magic which provides an outstanding out. With this and the line “But there is one thing for certain, things are shared between you two by a force greater than your own and that is the binding force of love.”


Hope you enjoy the idea Pete, it is only my spin on an effect in Wonder Readings, which is an excellent source for many more of ideas of the like.


Best,

Kirk

Fantastic. Thank you!