talkmagic.co.uk

Why does magic have to be all super-natural anyway?

Depends if the performer truly believes they are psychic?
or whether they are using known methods to seem as if they are.

When a magician or mentalist performs I feel they enter into a unspoken contract with the spectator 'I'm going to fool you now, you know it isn't real, but play along'.
There is a huge margin of difference between that and letting the audience go away genuinely thinking they've had a spiritual or truly supernatural experience.
I know that if I had seen someone who was trying to pass themselves off to be a real psychic and found out they weren't I'd feel cheated and slightly foolish.

Mikey.666 wrote:Why does magic have to be all super-natural anyway?

The clue I guess is in the name.

Well, when tit comes to tat, I personally don't like cheesey magic, or magicains claiming they have supernatural powers. (Magicians, I don't speak for mentalists)

For example, I reme,ber watch Cyril perform a type of ambitious card. He had the card lost in the deck, he held the deck out and he had about 10 people put their hands on it. He claimed everytime he clicked his fingers he turned back time. The deck of cards where back in the card box with the specs card out, on top. Oh dear

greedoniz wrote:
When a magician or mentalist performs I feel they enter into a unspoken contract with the spectator 'I'm going to fool you now, you know it isn't real, but play along'.

I hear much talk of this "unspoken contract" but it seems to me that the only people who are aware of this contract are magicians. The spec's have no idea that they've entered into this contract. Certainly none of them have ever mentioned it to me.

However what I do hear is the disappointment they feel when a magician tells them that all they're witnessing is "tricks". The majority of specs (and this is purely from my own experience) would rather believe the magician had paranormal powers than a demonstrator of gimmicks.

I had woman recently who was very angry at Derren brown for claiming he did everything with "sleight of hand, showmanship etc. etc" when he quite clearly was a gifted psychic. She felt cheated by him.

Anyway, that's my twopence worth. I'm outta here...

Oh quick, just to clear the muddy waters - I'm talking about "serious" magicians here and mentalists. Not cheesy guys with bunny rabbits and sparkly waistcoats. Quite clearly you'd have to be mental to believe they had any powers at all - except to induce the gag reflex.

Often I determine the effect I'm doing as "magic" or not by the audience I'm performing for. If it is someone who might believe in magic or is one of those superfluous supernatural weirdos (unfortunately, I know a few ) I'll do something like "And now the magic begins. As I [insert magical movement here] I reveal your card". Other times I do it more of a science-related patter. I'll do a card revelation by doing a human lie-detector test or something of that nature. My final path in performance is more of an illusion-type thing. If I do an ACR in this way, I'll keep revealing their card but at the end of the routine I'll say something like "But sadly, this is not real magic, just a shoddy illusion" and then I'll end with a card change from their chosen card to an indifferent card.

Yea, wouldn't it be great whilst watching Star Wars if Darth Vader suddenly stopped in the middle of his battle with Luke, looked at the camera and said, "Remember folks, this is just a movie. In fact, the pictures are all actually just stills, but move past your eyes on screen so fast that it is only an illusion anyway..."

Then, Luke looks at the camera and says, "That's correct. This isn't real, folks, please keep that in mind while you enjoy the rest of this illusory play. Also, these light sabers are nothing more than a little piece of plastic and the FX guys will add the light thing later on..."

Gee, that'd make it a really great movie, wouldn't it?

And, if you're uncomfortable saying that you're doing "magic" then don't say it at all.

In bars I do a little piece where I take two matches out of a book and hold them by the heads. I show that one side is dark and the other light (with book matches, more often than not, there is a dark side and a light side). I look at the person I'm doing the trick for and say, "It's funny that a couple of matches could possibly reflect the human condition, but they do. See? Just like people, they have a light side and a dark side..."

The absurdity of my suggestion that two paper matches somehow equates to the human condition pulls them in and, in fact, matches, like people, do have a dark and light side so the analogy works. I continue:

"The odd part is that some people seem to always be down, like they only have a dark side."

I show both sides being dark.

"While other people only see the good in everything - It's hard to imagine that they have a dark side at all."

I immediately show both sides light.

"But, most of us have a dark side and a light side..."

I stop, right there, and strike one of the matches and light my cigarette.

Now, the fact of the matter is, I never said I was going to do a trick or do magic and there is nothing in the script that makes any claim at all. But, in that very second when they witness those two matches become the color that I want them to, they are seeing magic. I can see it in their eyes...When they look up at me from those matches with their jaws slack, I know that I drew them in for that quick second in time.

But I would never, NEVER say before, during or afterwards that I did a "trick."

Like I said, just like a movie - it's in the performance. If you get them to buy into it, they will suspend their disbelief for that brief moment and in that moment you can get them to believe in magic, just like during the fight, they believe that Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker are trying to kill each other.

Jesus, if you're just going to show them stupid tricks or inundate them with boring puzzles, please quit.

Mike.

I don't claim to perform magic, and I don't claim it's anything else. It just so happens, that magic is the only possible option for what it could have been.

In terms of believing in ghosts, etc. Darwin Ortiz makes a very strong point when he uses the quote:

"I don't believe in ghosts, but I am afraid of them"

... which a representation of the emotional belief system operating independently of the intellectual belief system and it's the emotional belief system which is the key to believing in magic.

I think I've missed something out, which people have picked up on.

I don't claim anything when I perform. I don't say "I am going to show you a magic trick" or "I'm going to show you something with magical powers" or "I'm going to show you something cool using sleight of hand"

If somebody asks me to perform I basically say, ok, and start something off.

Do people actually say they are going to show them "magic" or "slieght of hand" before they perform?

Magic is mostly in the mind of the audience so you don't need to say anything specific, just let them assume - it's far more powerful than any statement you or anyone else can make.

Mandrake wrote:Magic is mostly in the mind of the audience so you don't need to say anything specific, just let them assume - it's far more powerful than any statement you or anyone else can make.

Indeed

I agree with presenting your stuff and letting the audience believe what they want. By caliming to actual be using magikal ability then you are misrepresenting and possibly causing ridicule for both this magic and the other, spiritual magik.

From shows I have seen it seems quite common to say something along the lines of 'I want to show you something...'

If you make any claim at all you're not only telegraphing the effect you'll also have to live up to your claim and some members of the audience may still not agree with you. By saying nothing but just demonstrating 'something unusual' you are already succeeding!

Mandrake wrote:Magic is mostly in the mind of the audience ...

It is, in fact, all in the mind of the audience and by stating that it's going to be magic in advance gives the audience's intellectual mind the opportunity to refute that ridiculous claim before the trick has even started.