talkmagic.co.uk

A couple of other factors in the choice-of-tarot-deck topic to consider...

Some of the decks available actually have words printed at the bottom of all the cards (and not just the major arcana but the minor arcana).. most notably the classic Crowley deck. These words can perhaps be useful in triggering a readers' creativity when maybe doing a telephone reading but some of the words can be a bit off-putting or negative sounding, particularly with the Crowley deck. I was reminded of this when reading Mark Lewis' earlier message about the prediction deck and the advantage of NOT having a pictorial scene on the minor arcana. Having words on the bottom can make the whole flexibility of interpretation even more difficult.. especially if you are reading for a client in person and they notice a word at the bottom of one of their cards and, no matter what you are saying to them, their eyes are just fixated as they point to a card and say "what does that mean?". And it is inevitabely a word like "sorrow" or "cruelty".. as in the Crowley deck.. I'd actually be quite surprised to see a commercial reader use that deck, even though it is highly praised for various reasons, it's not the most breezy set of Tarot on the market!

Also, a lot of decks these days have a one way back design
Unfortunately, not any of the Rider Waites have such a design.. (which is a shame because I have a Jumbo Deck of Riders I would love to use on stage but the backs have the traditional criss-cross patern and that's a bit of a shame).

1. There's only a few spreads shown
2. Other people have mentioned something about different meanings if the cards are reversed? This isn't covered.
3. As a complete beginner in this fascinating allied art, I have NO experience of any sort of reading, other than so called psychic radio readings. Mr Hart gives you a few tips on setting the atmosphere, ie, a darkened room with candles, but doesn't really give you a suggested 'script' as it were, as to what to say, although he does tell you what to avoid saying, so you don't make any Tarot 'etiquette' gaffs.

Thank you Magikmax for your comments. It is always good to get HONEST feedback from customers. As readers of this forum know we really do take notice of what is said about our products.

I feel that 'Tarot Made Easy' does exactly what it says on the cover. The book was written to strip away all the guff and give you the information you need to get on and do real readings. The only way to really learn is to actualy get out and do readings for people. The more you do the better you will get. I hope the book gives the reader the confidence to have a go.

I will certainly take your comments into consideration. I never make any differentiation with 'reversed cards'. Perhaps therefore I should mention this in the book and I will incorporate a paragraph dealing with this in the next update.

As I said in a previous post: The book concentrates on readings for corporate type events where you need to be brief, so I've given an example of the spreads that I use in these real life situations.

However if customer feedback says more spreads are required then I shall consider this also.

The problem is just where do you stop? I want the book to be simple and direct so I'm reluctant to add more than a couple of pages to its length.

BTW - Good answer VoodooMick.

Anyway as I said all comments are welcome.

If you buy it and you don't like it - send it back for a full refund on the purchase price. Try THAT with anyother magic dealer...

Keith Hart

Keith is right...there is so much variety in Tarot decks, meanings, and spreads that any attempt to 'make it easy' needs to make some choices.

Add to these factors, the correspondences with numerology, colours, astrology, I Ching, etc. and you have a veritable cornucopia of options.

I prefer the older cards like the Jean Noblet (c. 1650) and Rider Waite (1930s) over the 'themed' cards, although a friend of mine swears by the Thoth deck.....suppose it is all a matter of taste.

Spreads can be simple three-card past, present, future, 3 rows of 5 cards for past, present and future, celtic cross, romany spread, etc. The point is really about how your spin your narrative and allow the querent to relate to the cards. There is endless study and fascination in this area.

I have used the Toth deck for years, but in order to understand the meaning of the symbology from an esoteric point of view, you will need to study other material. I am not saying that you couldn't use Black Hart's system with them- I am sure you could. However, if I encountered someone using this deck, I would know in a matter of minutes if they knew the esoterics of the symbology or not. But, not to worry- The average layman won't notice. Be that as it may though, I would suggest sticking with Rider Waite, Marsellis, and cards that don't rely on esoteric imagry unless you are familiar with them. You never really know who you are reading for if they are strangers and you would look rather silly being asked which planet corresponds to a given Hebrew letter and which god-form rules over it if you give the wrong answers.

scott priest wrote:I have used the Toth deck for years, but in order to understand the meaning of the symbology from an esoteric point of view, you will need to study other material. I am not saying that you couldn't use Black Hart's system with them- I am sure you could. However, if I encountered someone using this deck, I would know in a matter of minutes if they knew the esoterics of the symbology or not. But, not to worry- The average layman won't notice. Be that as it may though, I would suggest sticking with Rider Waite, Marsellis, and cards that don't rely on esoteric imagry unless you are familiar with them. You never really know who you are reading for if they are strangers and you would look rather silly being asked which planet corresponds to a given Hebrew letter and which god-form rules over it if you give the wrong answers.

All true, and I would certainly recommend a newcomer to the tarot to study the given meanings of each card and not, as some recommend, making it up as they go along.

However (and it's a biggie)...I work alongside a lot of shut eye psychics. These are very experienced people who work on those awful phone lines and tacky TV channels. And what I hear from them is this:

"Oh I've no idea what the cards mean. I just use them as props because the punters like to see them."

"No I don't know what the cards are supposed to mean. I just pick up on the energies and colours that jump out at me."

"Each card has a totally different meaning depending on who I'm reading for."

So to be brutally honest, the professional mediums and psychics do tend to "make it up as they go along" - or at least their own version of making it up. And this isn't from some amateur hour wannabee mediums - these folk are the real deal.

What works best for me though is falling back on the prescribed meanings, but also adding a shed load of what I pick up on an intuitive level (whether you believe that intuition is genuine or one method or another is a totally different subject). But when it comes to reading the cards, the only rule is...there are no rules! Each and every working reader has their own little method, their own spreads, their own stock phrases, their own subtleties.

To expect any reader to know which hebrew god is associated with which number or colour is a little much. But each to their own, and that's what makes it such a fascinating subject and my very favourite branch of mentalism. As Corinda said (and I paraphrase) "readings are the pinnacle of metalism". He also said that Sheffield United will be European champions in 2010/2011. Honest. Go and look.

Mr. Wand, I agree whole heartedly. The Thoth deck specifically was created to be used by the Golden Dawn. Each member was expected to make their own copy, and to know the meaning of the symbology. That is why I don't recommend this deck to newbies. However, the Hebrew letters do relate to Hebrew names of God, and the imagry of the esoteric meanings is why they were created. If you dont know the symbology of a deck like this, why would you use it? There are plenty of decks that don't use that symbology.

I can see how one may ask if it is reasonable to know those things. If you are a layman's magician, no. You don't need to know, but if you use an esoteric deck, it isnt unreasonable at all to be expected to know. For example, The Fool in the Toth deck has the Hebrew letter Alph on the left of the cards title. What would you say that was if you are asked and you dont know? You can't say its a smudge on the card can you? How about The Aeon, that letter is Shin. And who is the god in the background? Horus.

Or, the 4 of Disks- those triangles represent the 4 elements and that castle symbolizes a ritual chamber. Other decks dont use that system, but if you use an esoteric deck, yes- you should invest enough time in knowing what it's symbology that is right there on the cards is. This deck is based on Crowley's own cards, and those who possessed it before it was publicly available had to prove that they did know which god forms, both Egyptian and Hebrew names correspond to the letters and why.

I realize that I am new to this forum, but my background is from the other side of the fence first which I devoted over 20 years of study to, and mentalism second, so you must forgive my biased point of view on this subject.

scott priest wrote:I realize that I am new to this forum, but my background is from the other side of the fence first which I devoted over 20 years of study to, and mentalism second, so you must forgive my biased point of view on this subject.

It's always nice to converse with someone who obviously has a deep affection for the cards. Good to have you around.

themagicwand wrote:

scott priest wrote:I realize that I am new to this forum, but my background is from the other side of the fence first which I devoted over 20 years of study to, and mentalism second, so you must forgive my biased point of view on this subject.

It's always nice to converse with someone who obviously has a deep affection for the cards. Good to have you around.

Absoutely! I love the correspondences between different systems...I have a nice Rune book that has a big chart in the back to lay out the different relationships between and among the different oracles... Loren Tindall does a lot of this in his products, as does Craig Browning in Easy Readings. Added knowledge of these different systems enriches the reading and gives you more flexibility.

Reading tarot is quite similar to effects such as Sanctum II where you can interpret things to suit the sitter. The symbolism on the cards can mean many things and I have often taken a chance and gone out on a limb, resulting in a massive direct hit.

As for Black Hart, I can vouch for them as an excellent seller and offer outstanding customer service. Their Weeja is still one of the most cherished props in my collection of magical apparatus.

scott priest wrote:you must forgive my biased point of view on this subject.

Not 'biased' Scott, more like 'experienced' and that's something we can all appreciate !

black hart wrote:Thank you Magikmax for your comments. It is always good to get HONEST feedback from customers. As readers of this forum know we really do take notice of what is said about our products.

I never make any differentiation with 'reversed cards'. Perhaps therefore I should mention this in the book and I will incorporate a paragraph dealing with this in the next update.

Keith Hart

Thanks very much for taking the time to reply Keith, you're a true gentleman and a scholar.

It's interesting that you don't make any differentiation with reversed cards, I think that this highlights one of the main things behind your method (which is excellent, by the way): it encourages you to think for yourself.

In the same way that a magician learning a trick from a book often has to put his own spin on things, as opposed to learning a trick from a DVD where you can just 'copy', I think that your system is designed in a similar way, so that you have a basic meaning for everything, and a fantastic and easy system for remembering stuff, but it encourages you to think about the meanings of the cards yourself, and go with your own feelings, rather than three pages of rubbish in someone else's textbook.

I've been using your system for a few weeks now, and I'm very happy with it. I think adding a sentence on reversed meanings might be a good idea, purely because I read about it in the instructions that came with the deck itself, and got a bit confused, because you hadn't mentioned it yourself.

Thanks also to Voodoo Mick and themagicwand for your usual knowledgable inputs

One thing I know I'm going to have a problem with is finding someone to do a reading on to practise with? All my friends are men's men who enjoy a pint down the local, and would probably punch me if I pulled my Tarot cards on them and asked if anyone wanted a reading...anyone got any ideas?

magikmax wrote:One thing I know I'm going to have a problem with is finding someone to do a reading on to practise with? All my friends are men's men who enjoy a pint down the local, and would probably punch me if I pulled my Tarot cards on them and asked if anyone wanted a reading...anyone got any ideas?

Oh you'd be surprised! My experience is that "men's men" tend to be absolutely terrified of the tarot (and anything vaguely supernatural - the ouija being a good example). They may try to hide that terror behind overly masculine shows of bravado or aggression - but look into their eyes. It's sheer fear. I had one bloke storm out of the seance room saying "me dad always warned me to steer clear of that kinda stuff!" Quite why he'd paid good money to actually go into the seance room in the first place is still a mystery to me.

The "laydeez" however love it. Yay for the ladies I say. Strength comes in different shapes and sizes.