talkmagic.co.uk

This is going to spark controvesary but oh well

At the moment I'm swinging towards flourishing because it is a lot easier and cheaper to get get into because anyone can invent a few two handed cuts learn a thumb fan and put a routine together. However i do enjoy magic but it is much more time consuming as you have to practicie the patter and hidden sleghts for hours in front of a mirror, though that in it's self can be enjoyable. I suppose I enjoy flourishing because I can do it absent mindedly (in lessons some of the time) and don't realy have to concentrate on it. It is more a way relaxation and winding down than magic can be to me.

What is anyone elses opinion

It's not that controversial, it has a simple answer - you decide, it's your life

I think you've outlined the most important thing - flourishing is not magic, it is effectively juggling with cards, and as such I think is more limited in what other people can take from your performance. I would think about:

Why do you do magic and/or flourishing, and who do you prefer performing for - yourself or others?
What part of flourishing and magic do you like?
If people see you flourishing, how long will it be before they ask if you can do any magic?
Where do you see your performances going? Very few people hire or even ask "card flourishers" to entertain people, it's more of a competition thing.

And finally, why can't you do both? Flourishing is a great way to get comfortable and confident with a deck of cards, and will help with some technical aspects of card magic a great deal.

Say card magic is better than mentalism - thats contraversal.

Yeah whatever floats your boat is the key here. I know a few flourishes not too many though, just enough for say when I sit down to a game pf poker. Its always fun to see peoples faces, but generally it is hard to keep people interest for that long with cards. Lets face it how many laymen will appreciate 6 differents cuts and fans. This is were you need magic.

Although sometimes I do like to relax with a bottle of red and I'll take the notion to learn some new flourish. I don't always get it to performance standard but its good play about with it for a night to see if I like it.

I have pontificated about this matter in great and wondrous detail in my "Wit and Wisdom" book. 5 whole pages on the subject. I can post extracts bit by bit on here if anyone is interested.

Suffice it to say that flourishes can either be an asset or a detriment. In the case of most magicians (especially the young and foolish) it is a detriment.

They should be done intelligently or not at all.

You're 16 with your life ahead of you and there's plenty of room for both. Don't be in a hurry to make your mind up about ditching magic, particulalry for the reasons that you've given.

Some flourishes can take just as long to perfect as some magic tricks and as will has said, you can entertain someone for five minutes with flourishes and entertain for 50 minutes and longer with magic.

Like most things inlife, you reap what you sew and in terms of practice, imagine how good you could be at magic by the time that you're in your early 20's.

Check out the Search Function, this topic has been discussed many times before and the end result is usually the same - flourishing isn't magic although it's very skillful and more akin to juggling.

Cheaper to get into? Yes. Easier? No.

(puts Juggler hat on)

Often flourishing involves a great deal more skill than card magic. (And before anyone says it, yes lots of card magic involves huge amounts of skill and practise etc, but lots doesn't).

Magic is all about you, the way you present your tricks, the way you engage the audience, the general image you put across. Basically, magic is acting, just with a few more secrets thrown in to boot.

To put together a decent routine of flourishing (or juggling or whatever) it doesn't matter how engaging a person you are, or how hilarious your jokes are, if you spill your cards all over the floor, people aren't going to be impressed. Everything you do has to be incredibly slick, incredibly well thought out, and essentially second nature to you. Whilst this is of course also true of magic, in a 15 minute magic set I will do about 4 tricks, at most. The rest of the time I spend talking to the audience, involving them and generally selling myself as a magician, rather than selling the tricks.

For card flourishes, you do not have this luxury. If you watched someone for 15 minutes and they did 4 flourishes, you'd feel kinda cheated (unless they were bloody incredible card flourishes). Remember that most flourishes last a few seconds at best, and that audiences will soon get bored if you start to repeat things. It takes me a long time to come up with a decent, engaging contact juggling routine that lasts 5 minutes (because for such a visual performance medium, 5 minutes is a LIFETIME).

So by all means take up card flourishing because you prefer it to magic, or because you enjoy doing it more. But if you want to perform it, don't think for a moment that it'll be easier.

(takes juggler hat off)

topper159 wrote: I suppose I enjoy flourishing because I can do it absent mindedly (in lessons some of the time) and don't realy have to concentrate on it. It is more a way relaxation and winding down than magic can be to me.

What is anyone elses opinion

Hitting the nail squarely on the head, Farlsborough wrote:It's not that controversial, it has a simple answer - you decide, it's your life

Pounding in the next nail in one, dat8962 wrote:You're 16 with your life ahead of you and there's plenty of room for both. Don't be in a hurry to make your mind up about ditching magic, particulalry for the reasons that you've given.

Also pegging a nail in a single stroke, Serendipity wrote:So by all means take up card flourishing because you prefer it to magic, or because you enjoy doing it more. But if you want to perform it, don't think for a moment that it'll be easier.

It never ceases to amaze me...Mentalists look down on magicians and magicians in turn look down on the XCMers. And, yet, we are all one in the same family.

Rather sad, really.

Mike.

One thing that always makes me roll my eyes is when people who object to XCM get exasperated and insist "But it's not magic!"

As far as I'm aware, it doesn't claim to be magic. It's like hating poker players because it involves playing cards but isn't magic! It's an irrational non-sequiter leap.

I'm much more rational, of course - I dislike XCM simply because it's pointless

Michael Jay wrote:...It never ceases to amaze me...Mentalists look down on magicians and magicians in turn look down on the XCMers. And, yet, we are all one in the same family.

Rather sad, really.

Mike.

Yeah, it's a shame. All this Mentalism "versus" Card Magic "versus" XCM; no need for it, really. But some people will always have that elitist attitude. Such is life.

XCM per se is probably pointless but if the XCM-er then goes on to learn and perform card magic, then the skills already acquired can only be of benefit when learning the myriad of card sleights out there. Personally, I enjoy watching XCM and find it very impressive. But I wouldn't want to string out a performance for an audience because I don't think it could hold the attention for that long; I think it could get tedious after a while. XCM is probably more a personal gratification thing for the XCM-er than anything else.

Whenever this controversy gives me a headache, I simply perform Paul Harris' "Gambler VS Mentalist VS Magician" and feel all better again...

Michael Jay wrote:It never ceases to amaze me...Mentalists look down on magicians and magicians in turn look down on the XCMers. And, yet, we are all one in the same family

Amen.

We are only as strong as we are united and as weak as we are divided and all that jazz..........

Someone said it is not easier to get into flourishing than magic I would disagree because flourishing is not shrouded in the secrecy that magic is it is much more approachable because it is not relianant on it's secrets, it is just as hard to acomplish

I think flourishing can only appeal to other flourishers for more than 5 minutes because and audience doesn't really diffienciate between what it has aready seen and what it hasn't.

Also i think it is very much an ego thing of i can do something you can't (but then magic is aswell i suppose)

Sorry to all the XCMers, but you have absolutely nothing on proper card magicians such as the late, great Tommy Wonder, Bill Malone and Daryl. For sheer entertainment, flicking and spinning cards can't compare to real audience participation.

I would have to agree most magicians are better performers