talkmagic.co.uk

basics of nlp - very interesting, somewhat useful...not all of it is mumbo jumbo...

the two milton erikson books by bandler and grinder also the same....

nlp for dummies - good basics, nice and simpe to follow...

for those of you who are not natural charmers, it can nod you in the basic general direction...

but do not spend lots of money on courses....

it can also help with certain suggestion work...

by the way, I'm only talking from my own experiences "in the field" as it were...the two books by Nylup (spelling?) and the other guy - sleight of mind and Geist are both superb....

still not watched this dvd though! got tomorrow off so hopefully then...

I think this is an excellent DVD, gives a lovely framework for an informal and sincere reading. I think the level of information is just about right and will be aided by any knowledge one might have about cold reading, although that's not a necessary adjunct.

Slight criticisms - I wonder if he could have gone into a little more detail perhaps, especially regarding the base and the foliage of the tree, and maybe used the DVD medium to a greater extent in terms of structure. But what is great is the 16 example readings that are given, which, if you watch in the appropriate place after you've gone through the teaching, cement the basics you've learnt and show you how to develop that core knowledge into a fuller reading. One thing though - what's with the dumbasses that magicmakers use for demonstration?!

All in all, an excellent "start up package" for those who want to engage in some less mystical "reading" type malarky in an easy and non-intimidating way. Big thumbs up.

BTW, you can get this from Prudhoe Magic for £16.99 plus £1 P&P.

Anyone got this and wants to do a tree reading for me?

http://www.putfile.com/pic/8191680

I've PMed you mate but feel free to post it up here if you feel like it

The tree was actually drawn by my girlfriend and not by me - so any oppurtunities you had for hot reading were slightly flawed there Farlsy.

Not that I'm suggesting you would use such things!

Here is the text of the reading:

Your tree is very interesting (seriously!) because it merges three different common tree forms. The most common form of tree is the fluffy "cloud-like" tree which is that of the optimist - yours has that general outline, but also the bare bones of a tree that has shed it's leaves, which is a tree of honesty. The tree top is linked to your mindset, the head, your thoughts etc. andso the fact that it near fills the page, stretching right down to the trunk, suggests your head is a very busy place to be right now, and the bare branches suggest that certainly at the moment you are trying to be very honest with yourself, although this can also be generalised to suggest that you are a trustworthy person at heart and someone your friends trust when the chips are down.
The detail suggests a degree of... well, tortuous-ness, and the slight downward droop - this is where the third (and rarer) form of tree is hinted at, the weeping willow, which is a sign of melancholy - again, the degree of detail and fullness here suggests that maybe your head isn't a wonderfully happy place at the moment. However, what's very interesting is that your tree ultimately fills the outline of that first shape - the optimist - even though you probably didn't start off with that intention, which at a push could suggest that here is a deeply hidden cry of freedom, a ray of light from the depths that believes things have the potential to get better.
Before we continue, a quick general point about the branches - they are very angular, suggesting someone who loves attention to detail (in this case, to the extent that you may have been accused of pedantry in the past!) and are not content with a vague picture - you like to know details, you like to work things out, you like precision (this is long shot but you may even be one of those people who sees precision and complexity in a beautiful light - someone who's breath is taken away looking down a microscope rather than at a pretty picture) - I would expect careers and hobbies to reflect this.

On to the boughs - where the trunk meets the top - this represents the very moment in time you drew the tree - today, now. Often, multiple boughs represent choices we are faced with. In your case, they are integral to the overall design of the tree top, suggesting to me that you are not necessarily faced with lots of different "physical" paths in your life (although it's possible), but instead have many different areas that require your consideration and resolution, or at least that is how it feels to you.

Moving on to the trunk - I'm glad to see that it is nice and solid, with a wide base, which suggests that ultimately you have quite a secure and straightforward past, although the slight backward curvature might indicate times where you have struggled slightly. However, of most note is the hole that is in the tree. This tends to represent a specific time of hardship or trauma in your life, the ramifications of which you are still dealing with, at least subconsciously. What's more interesting is there is very little detail here, perhaps suggesting that the outcome or resolution has not yet occurred, or that you have not cemented your thoughts on the matter.
Overall, your tree is very developed and detailed suggesting an above average level of right brain activity. It wouldn't surprise me if you were left-handed, but then it's difficult to say without seeing your signature for comparison.

And the feedback from my girlfriend:

It was definitely very interesting to read that from a drawing of a tree - it was nice to read through and seemed fairly detailed.
Overall I'd say it was about 70% accurate, but I know about Barnum statements/cold reading so I imagine a lot if it would be lost on me.
If I had just met you at a party and drew that tree for you with a reading like that, I'd be very impressed!


Nice work Farlsy

My issue with NLP is that to some it has become a kind of religion. I know people who have been to anthony robbins seminars who have told me that when chanting 'I am a force for good' as he whips the crowd up into a frenzy (and suggestable state), he slips in 'I am a force for God'. The selling of other expensive seminars are also done at the most suggestable times.
I have met people who are big into NLP, and are constantly 'on'. They just come across as weird and a bit creepy. They are becoming exaclty what they have worked to avoid.

NLP, Scientology, born again Christians..they all have that odd look in their eyes that I don't trust.

Anyway, I don't want to appear controversial (genuinely) and would be interested to hear your thoughts on this question: Having read all the posts on the Draw Me A Tree reading technique, it strikes me that it appears to be a form of reading for magicians who don't want to dabble in the tarot or palm reading or even graphology. Surely it would be easier to do a tarot reading or a handwriting analysis than mess around with getting folk to draw trees? The tarot or graphology would also appear to be more genuine to your average spec IMHO.

I understand that there's some work to be done to memorise what certain shapes etc mean and how they reflect one's personality? Wouldn't that "homework" be better spent studying something like the palm or tarot or graphology. And once you are well versed in one of the "classic" forms of divination and personality profiling, why would you need to bother with tree drawing?

Hope I don't upset anybody, I'm genuinely interested in any replies. May well be that I'm totally missing the point as usual. And of course I'm well aware of the arguement that says the more methods of profiling people you have the better. I don't really agree with it - if you have the tarot, the palm and graphology you'll never need anything else. And your specs, given the choice, will always choose one of the classics over something less well known.

HOWEVER- I can see how it could be used to get bookings at horticultural fairs (like Chelsea Flower Show). Oooh, the pound sign have just turned on. Ignore the above. Hurrah for tree drawings!

Another tree reading for the wise one (well alright, my missus).

Courtesy of Part-Timer:

You are an optimistic, friendly person, or at least you seem to be. There's a degree of over-compensation in the size of the branches, and a slightly drooping quality, which makes me think that the outgoing personality may be partially a projection of how you want to be (or be seen).

You're an honest person, perhaps so honest that you make a conscious decision to tell the truth and be open with people. You probably regard honesty as an important aspect of other people's personalities. You don’t have much time for fakes, or people who are all show. Having said that, you are still concerned with how people view you. It's just that you want them to see the 'real' you. There may be a conflict between what you think is the real you, and how you feel sometimes.

You don't like being confined. You either gesticulate quite a lot, or you find your thoughts running away with you.

You have a lot of interests, and you probably find you don’t have enough time to explore all the things you’d like to do. You like to fill up your life with things and perhaps find it difficult to grab some real 'downtime'.

You are happy dealing with details. At the moment, in particular, there’s a lot going on in your life. You've got some things on your mind, and maybe decisions you need to take. They might not be life-changing steps, but they are certainly important to you. It might be that you're thinking of changing something important, like moving, or doing a different job.

There might have been some kind of problem when you were very young. This might have been a illness when you were new-born, or a difficult birth, perhaps. Your childhood was pretty much unremarkable after that.

However, something happened about a third of your life ago that you're still dealing with. The branches of the tree are sweeping down towards the trunk, showing that it’s still a concern, even if the direct cause has gone. Perhaps there was something that happened in your teenage years that's had a strong effect on you, and who you are now. (I won’t pry and hazard a guess as to what this might have been.)

I'd say that you are artistic and enjoy good design. You like things that are a little bit unusual, perhaps art that isn't entirely cosy.

And the response:

I think I'd give this one about 80-90% accuracy. There were a couple of things in there which were not correct at all, Ecko says: One of them she points out was something about a troublesome birth or illness - I pointed out that jaundice (which she was born with) counts but she is most insistent that it's a miss - sorry! but on the whole it was good.
I still recognised a couple of cold reading elements but overall it was good.

I think [part-timer's] was done without him knowing who the tree was for whereas [Farlsborough's] was definitely done with [Ecko] in mind.

Either way, if I was at a dinner party and someone asked me to draw them a tree and gave me either reding, I'd be mighty impressed!


Good job both of you guys!

The thing that popped into my mind was a c-section birth, or some other minor complication, rather than a hole in the heart or something else severe. I think it's a hit.

Thanks for posting your other half's comments (and for giving me the chance to practise).

I was out tonight with a couple of work colleagues, and happened to mention that I was learning to do tree readings. I got a couple more practice sessions. While some things were way off the mark, there was a high degree of accuracy, especially for some of the more unusual things I got from the drawings.

They also got me to draw a tree, and had a go at interpreting it. It was actually a bit worrying (bearing in mind this was strictly 'hot' reading, as they've known me over two years).

I`m glad that it kinda worked! I tried not to hot read Mr. Zero, honest, but it`s incredibly hard not to as the alternative feels like writing something you know to be incorrect about a person! However I don`t feel I should be too apologetic as surely a wise performer would indeed hot read whenever damn well possible?! Perhaps you would consider giving me a score if you were to pretend you drew the tree...?

Magicwand - the reason I`m drawn to this method is as you might guess if you were asked: I simply don`t want to go down the pseudo-psychic "readings" route. Be it crystal balls, tarot, runes, whatever - I believe in them all to the same extent as I believe in this, i.e. not a lot, but the associations they have mean I personally would rather not touch them at all. To me it`s all cover for a cold reading, but I`m comfortable pretending it`s to do with the subconscious mind, but not with astrology or anything to do with the occult (however historically misplaced those associations may be).
Perhaps it`s the types of people we come into contact with, but the people I meet would be far more open to the idea of psychological windows into the subconscious than they would be with tarot or anything else like that.

Plus, what I`m loving is the fail safe out: if you phrase it as "this feature is often indicative of..." then you can never really be wrong, as anything that doesn`t hit is simply an anomaly of the method, and you have free reign in very openly trying to cold read something else to pin it to; "or perhaps this... or perhaps that... you say you had a car crash? Ah yes, that`s it then..." - I tried it quite a few times over the weekend and it seems like a very natural and fair way to fish for info!

I realise that good cold readers should never sound like they`re missing anyway, I just think that this method kind of powers itself without having to do any obvious U-turns or backtracks.

Besides, this is a form of graphology, and other than palm-reading it is more transportable, impromptu and informal than any discipline zhich requires props like tarot cards.

With regard to the actual method, there is only a teeny tiny bit of memory work really - by that I mean, there is a fair bit to remember, but the structure and method means it`s all very obvious once you have a bqsic idea of what the different parts represent.

Farlsborough wrote:I`m glad that it kinda worked! I tried not to hot read Mr. Zero, honest, but it`s incredibly hard not to as the alternative feels like writing something you know to be incorrect about a person! However I don`t feel I should be too apologetic as surely a wise performer would indeed hot read whenever damn well possible?! Perhaps you would consider giving me a score if you were to pretend you drew the tree...?

Wouldn't that just TOTALLY prove that it's all bunk? Barnum bunk. If Ecko's girlfriend was impressed then if Ecko says anything other than it doesn't at all apply to him then we have absolute proof of the technique's ambiguity, no?

Suits me fine

queen of clubs wrote:Wouldn't that just TOTALLY prove that it's all bunk?

Most magic is

queen of clubs wrote:Wouldn't that just TOTALLY prove that it's all bunk? Barnum bunk. If Ecko's girlfriend was impressed then if Ecko says anything other than it doesn't at all apply to him then we have absolute proof of the technique's ambiguity, no?

Absolute proof would require repeatable experiments under test conditions with the same results

And out of interest - aside from the hot reading parts, I would say that very little of that actually applies to me

Cold reading-esque it may be, but Barnum bunkum it is not