Hello everyone, a little help please.

Come and let everyone know a little about yourselves

Moderators: nickj, Lady of Mystery, Mandrake, bananafish, support

Hello everyone, a little help please.

Postby Madasahatter » Jul 25th, '04, 21:34



First of hello to everyone on here,
I am quite new to magic, I did have a little routine I used to do which involved a lot of the David Blaine type street magic which I used to impress my mates and other people when out on the town but a programme was put on TV that showed how to do most of them, so it wrecked all my attempts as people knew how to do them. This really put me off for ages, but watching some more magic shows on TV ( the non show and tell type!) I have had a renewed intrest!
I really love street magic (although I am not very good with cards) and this brings me on to a few questions, on looking about various web sites I have bought some stuff: torn and restored key ( I dont really like the routine for it though). got a few pay for down loads on some vanishes which I really like and need to get some supplies for on monday ( i.e IT, would very fine fishing line work?), also awaiting Cream by Sean Fields ( seen this done on TV and I thought it was well smart) and a floating dollor routine ( I know how its done but it comes with a book of tips for the newby).
I have enough to keep me busy for a few days but would like some advice on some other stuff, I am looking at getting Real Floating Card by Alex Marcov, Melt by Eric James and a Raven2+money and DVD. I like the idea of being able to do stuff when I am out and about, I dont want to be able to make money out of it but a drink off a nice ladie would be nice! so any advice on other tricks to look into?I also like some of the Jay Sanky stuff, but it all seems so expensive and I dont want to spend money on a naff trick,Also are there any good alternatives to magicians W** as I would have to get the real stuff online and want to get cracking tomorrow.
Well sorry for the long post and thanks in advance for any help people give me, regards John. :D

User avatar
Madasahatter
Junior Member
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Jul 25th, '04, 21:08
Location: Oxford-England

Postby bananafish » Jul 25th, '04, 22:22

Hi John

It's nice to hear from someone so keen to get started. I know you are eager to be doing impressive magic immediately, but it may be worth wafting through all the reviews we have here before you go spending too much. (There is also a good review index that may be of some help).

There are some very impressive effects out there, but also some real crud so be careful.

Anyway, I hope you have fun with the forum and that we will be able to answer all your questions...

Simon

User avatar
bananafish
Veteran Member
 
Posts: 5821
Joined: Apr 22nd, '03, 09:43
Location: Simon Shaw. Suffolk, UK (50:SH)

Postby Happy Toad » Jul 25th, '04, 23:11

Bees W** in place of magicians.

I concur with the above, use the reviews section and then ask any further questions.

Just off the top of my head some to look at are:

Disappearing card case
Penna Coin
Coin Unique
TT with a TT DVD
ID
Stealth Wallet
Chameleon Deck

The cheapest route to go is through books though personally I much prefer DVDs and as you mention Sankey I'd say you won't go to far wrong with most of his DVDs.

Hope there may be a few helpful titbits in ths post for you.

"Hodge scored for Forest after 22 seconds - totally against the run of
play" (Peter Lorenzo)
Happy Toad
Advanced Member
 
Posts: 1457
Joined: Oct 3rd, '03, 17:19
Location: Wolverhampton UK ..... ( 41 CP ) .....

Postby GoldFish » Jul 26th, '04, 09:41

Hi John,
Welcome to Talk Magic. It's great to see that you has such enthusiasm for magic and I hope that it wll be put to good use and that wee can help fuel it here.

All the best,


Fish

All the best,

Will Wood
User avatar
GoldFish
Advanced Member
 
Posts: 1006
Joined: Mar 15th, '04, 16:10
Location: Malawi 25:AH

Postby Mandrake » Jul 26th, '04, 10:39

Hi and welcome! As mentioned above, the Reviews over the past years will cover most of the effects you're looking at - have a good read!

User avatar
Mandrake
'
 
Posts: 27494
Joined: Apr 20th, '03, 21:00
Location: UK (74:AH)

Postby balejben » Jul 26th, '04, 11:05

hey john welcome to the forum....

balejben
 

Postby Michael Jay » Jul 26th, '04, 14:31

As has been pointed out, you have a strong enthusiasm to get started in this hobby/profession, so I don't want you to take what I'm about to say poorly...Still, I'm going to be a "wet blanket."

You are moving far too fast. This is the reason that you had problems to begin with when you started doing street magic and were disappointed with the results. Before you spend a shilling on these tricks that you want to get, the first thing you need is a copy of "Complete Course in Magic" by Mark Wilson. Next, pick yourself up "Royal Road to Card Magic" by Hugard and Braue, if you want to start working with cards and "Modern Coin Magic" by J.B. Bobo if you want to get into coins. Not to worry, though, Wilson's book will give you a good starting position for both (and a whole lot more).

Now, let's look at some specific stuff...

I am quite new to magic, I did have a little routine I used to do which involved a lot of the David Blaine type street magic which I used to impress my mates and other people when out on the town but a programme was put on TV that showed how to do most of them, so it wrecked all my attempts as people knew how to do them. This really put me off for ages, but watching some more magic shows on TV ( the non show and tell type!) I have had a renewed intrest!


You need to understand that there is nothing that has been exposed that you can't get past in performance. Too often, those new to magic think that the trick they do is the magic. As a result, their presentation is of a trick, and not of magic. You must entertain your audience, not show them a trick. Yes, we are magicians, and we do tricks to entertain, but the trick in and of itself is nothing more than a puzzle. It is up to each magician to entertain and your personality, your presentation, your choice of patter and how you interact with the spectators is the key to entertaining these people.

Got a few pay for down loads on some vanishes which I really like and need to get some supplies for on monday ( i.e IT, would very fine fishing line work?), also awaiting Cream by Sean Fields ( seen this done on TV and I thought it was well smart) and a floating dollor routine ( I know how its done but it comes with a book of tips for the newby).


Herein lies your problem. You are expecting these tricks to make you a magician. They won't. Only YOU can make you a magician. The tricks will make you a trickster. Understand that floating effects, like the one above, are the most difficult of things to pull off. Let's face it...When you see something floating, what possible means could do such a thing. There is only one answer - string. I strongly suggest that you stay away from these effects until you have a lot more time in magic. I've been performing magic for 30 years and I don't do a single floating effect. Of all the magic that you can perform, this is the hardest for the audience to swallow.

I have enough to keep me busy for a few days but would like some advice on some other stuff, I am looking at getting Real Floating Card by Alex Marcov, Melt by Eric James and a Raven2+money and DVD.


Again, another problem. A few days? You can learn and become proficient with that material after only a few days? You may be able to do those tricks with only a few days of work, but you'll have one of two problems...You will not entertain with those tricks, or you'll expose those tricks. Keep in mind, more magic is exposed by magicians accidentally in a day than all the magic exposed on TV in a year. If you honestly want to become a magician, then spend at least a week on each and every one of those tricks that you have. After you've spent that amount of time, show the trick to a family member or friend that you trust. Get them to tell you what they liked and disliked about your presentation. Have them tell you if they figured out how you did it and what, specifically, gave it away. Then, polish it down from there, re-work the whole thing, and get someone different to watch you do it. Start the process all over again.

Once you've got it down and are prepared to show it to a lay audience, you should be to the point where you can do the whole thing without thinking about it, at all. Almost in your sleep. Now, you can spend less time working your sleights and more time interacting with your audience, where entertainment starts and tricking stops.

I also like some of the Jay Sanky stuff, but it all seems so expensive and I dont want to spend money on a naff trick


There are no "naff" tricks, only naff magicians. You make the magic, not the trick. A good magician can take a naff trick and make it a miracle, and a bad magician can take a miracle and turn it into a naff trick.

So, save your money looking for that trick that will make that young lady buy you a drink. Read Wilson's book and find stuff that fits your personality. Spend your time and effort working through that trick and making it second nature. Once you have it down and entertaining to watch, you'll find that the young lady will buy you a drink - not because you did a trick, but because you are an intriguing person who just performed a miracle for her.

I do hope that this post has not taken away your enthusiasm, but, rather, has given you some important tips on which road to follow.

Best wishes and best of luck to you.

Mike.

Michael Jay
 

Postby Happy Toad » Jul 26th, '04, 16:22

I agree with the gist of what Mike has said above but I'm going to disagree with one point and I know I'll be disagreeing with a lot more than Mike.

Some of the books he has recommended were also recommended to me when I got started in magic, in particular Royal Road to Card Magic. It sure is a classic yet it very nearly put me off getting into magic and to this day I've never really got into card magic.

Now I know it's the Bible for many and I also know it was the starting point for many, but In my case and in quite a few others I know it was a major switch off.

I hate disagreeing with people that know far more than I do, but I do feel in this case it's worth making the point.

P.S
I promise one day to read right through my copy of RRTCM ( If I live long enough )

"Hodge scored for Forest after 22 seconds - totally against the run of
play" (Peter Lorenzo)
Happy Toad
Advanced Member
 
Posts: 1457
Joined: Oct 3rd, '03, 17:19
Location: Wolverhampton UK ..... ( 41 CP ) .....

Postby Madasahatter » Jul 26th, '04, 20:19

Wow thanks for the input guys and thanks Michall Jay for that post, Michael Jay I no way meant that I would be performing street magic to a high standard in a few days!I know it takes years to become a master, but normally I pick things up very fast and I am very good with muscle memory( I am not saying I am a natural!), I totally agree that it is all about the performance, I wouldn't walk up to some one and say watch this I can float a 5 quid note, I feal I have the showmanship to do a bit of street magic I just dont know many tricks! and here in lies my problem, I have looked at loads of magic books( I will check out the books you mentioned) and most of them seem to cover the same old tricks, that people do at kids parties, are there any books that relate to street magic routines with stuff on how to build your own gimmicks and sugested ways to use them, at least then I can add my own humor and improvise on them a little, I find that Magic is very difficult to get into because of the secrecy thing, I know that street magic and impromtu stuff is all I am instrested as I have always enjoyed watching close up magic, however I respect all forms off magic and respect anyone with the balls to perform in front off people.
I am going to visit the International Magic shop in London this week to have a good look round are there any other shops around the London area that are worth having a look at?
Again thank you to every one that gave some imput, it has given me a lot to think about, well gota go as I think I have come up with a way to make myself invisable! :wink:

Last edited by Madasahatter on Jul 26th, '04, 20:27, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Madasahatter
Junior Member
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Jul 25th, '04, 21:08
Location: Oxford-England

Postby panther1004 » Jul 26th, '04, 20:23

Hi there,
Great to have you round the boards
Cya round the boards. :D

panther1004
Preferred Member
 
Posts: 202
Joined: Aug 9th, '03, 13:08

Postby p » Jul 27th, '04, 05:52

I have Wilson's book. Great source. See ya later.Talk to ya later.

User avatar
p
Junior Member
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Jul 19th, '04, 06:01
Location: JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA (SH:13)

Postby Michael Jay » Jul 27th, '04, 17:32

Happy Toad wrote:I agree with the gist of what Mike has said above but I'm going to disagree with one point and I know I'll be disagreeing with a lot more than Mike.

Some of the books he has recommended were also recommended to me when I got started in magic, in particular Royal Road to Card Magic. It sure is a classic yet it very nearly put me off getting into magic and to this day I've never really got into card magic.

Now I know it's the Bible for many and I also know it was the starting point for many, but In my case and in quite a few others I know it was a major switch off.

I hate disagreeing with people that know far more than I do, but I do feel in this case it's worth making the point.

P.S
I promise one day to read right through my copy of RRTCM ( If I live long enough )


There is no reason to feel badly about bringing up this point of view, HT! You are not the only one to dislike RRTCM. I only suggest the book because it is considered "must read" material for card magic. However, of worthy note, I don't own the book myself! I'm not into cards all that much and don't need the book (although I do kick myself for not having it as it is a required book for a proper magic library...I will buy it one day, within the next decade, I promise!).

I'd also like to address the Hatter's concern:

...I have looked at loads of magic books( I will check out the books you mentioned) and most of them seem to cover the same old tricks, that people do at kids parties...


What's the difference between a kid's trick and an adult's trick? The presentation. Pure and simple. Almost any "adult" trick can be changed in presentation and made into a trick for younger audiences. The same can be done for tricks that are normally for kids. In fact, ashes on the arm, which was considered nothing special took Blaine to the top. It's all in how you present the material.

Anyway, you might be interested to note (and to further prove my point), in Wilson's book, there is a sucker effect using napkins. One is torn by the magician, the other by the spectator. The magician is able to restore his, of course, and then gives a false explanation of how he does it. Ultimately, the second torn napkin is restored, suckering the spectator into a false sense of what happened. My explanation here is very basic and there's a bit more to it than that, but you get the idea, I hope.

That very same effect, straight out of the pages of Wilson's book, was performed by Lance Burton on one of his specials and televised nationally. In Burton's hands, the effect was a killer! You may find that the effect in question is one of those "same old tricks."

Again, it is not the trick, but the magician who makes that trick good or bad.

:wink:

Mike.

Michael Jay
 

Postby bananafish » Jul 28th, '04, 08:59

That very same effect, straight out of the pages of Wilson's book, was performed by Lance Burton on one of his specials and televised nationally. In Burton's hands, the effect was a killer! You may find that the effect in question is one of those "same old tricks."


Amen to that. I remember one of the first magic tricks I had was a Marvins magic (or other el cheapo version, I can't remember it was a long time ago) trick called "Un-equal, Equal ropes" (Professors Nightmare). All I received was three pieces of cord of differing lengths and some very brief instructions.

Well the machanics weren't that tricky, but I was absolutely disgusted with it. No one would be fooled by that. What a pile of doggy poo. It went straight in the bin.

Now many years later, and having seen "the professors nightmare" performed 100's of times I have come to appreciate exactly how strong this simplest of effects plays. It's ALL in the presentation. When performed well, it is MAGIC personified.

User avatar
bananafish
Veteran Member
 
Posts: 5821
Joined: Apr 22nd, '03, 09:43
Location: Simon Shaw. Suffolk, UK (50:SH)


Return to Introductions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest