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by **Mandrake** » Jul 28th, '04, 23:25

Best thing to do would be to get hold of a copy of Basic Card Technique by Richard Kaufman - available in Vid and DVD format but I see the Vid is more expensive! Check out http://www.emagictricks.co.uk/product_i ... ts_id=4301 and http://www.emagictricks.co.uk/product_i ... ts_id=4572 for details of the contents. I used the Vid to try to get to grips with the EC but it took quite a while - probably because I'm not much of a cardie! Somewhere like bargain magic might show an assortment of prices from different sources.

Best of luck,

by **panther1004** » Jul 29th, '04, 18:51

Pm me, i have a small instructional vid for emlsley count.

Welcome to the boards!

cya

(Nice one mandrake, 2700 posts... lol nice round number ) :lol:

by **Michael Jay** » Jul 30th, '04, 20:01

I have a friend here in Toledo who does the Elmsley and it is seemless and invisible (even as a magician knowing what's going on, it is still impossible to see it happen - blows me away every time). He doesn't do it at his fingertips, though, which is the way that every other magician that I've watched do it. He has the block of cards pushed back into the crotch of the thumb, which is exactly how anybody would hold the cards if they were going to push them from one hand to the other, one at a time. He's tried to teach me the technique several times, but to no avail (which is why I don't do any tricks that involve the Elmsley - I just can't get past that fraction of a second's hesitation).

The technique is exactly the same as the "at the fingertips" way, just done in a more natural position. I strongly suggest that anyone doing an Elmsley put some time into trying to do it the way suggested above. It honestly does look natural, which makes it 100% better than the "at the fingertips" technique.

Mike.

by **GoldFish** » Jul 31st, '04, 00:24

I have a friend here in Toledo who does the Elmsley and it is seemless and invisible. He doesn't do it at his fingertips, though, which is the way that every other magician that I've watched do it.

Michael, I'm not quite sure how you mean "not at the finger tips"? Personally when I do an Elmsley the cards start off "deep" in my left hand, at the base of the thumb but then I use my right fingertips to pinch the cards during the counting. Does your friend place the cards deep into his right hand? If so I'd be very intrigued; after a quick play with a few cards I can't see a way of doing it that way. Sounds exciting.

by **nickj** » Jul 31st, '04, 11:40

There has been some discussion of this in the MO section, and a couple of us have made videos of our ways of doing it deep in both hands, pm me if you are interested in seeing the one I did (can't post the url here as the vid explains the move).

Nick

by **Alan Jackson** » Aug 3rd, '04, 13:03

A non-fingertip version of the count is given in the Card College series. It's easy enough to do and looks more natural than the fingertip version.

by **bananafish** » Aug 3rd, '04, 13:16

Michael Jay wrote:I have a friend here in Toledo who does the Elmsley and it is seemless and invisible (even as a magician knowing what's going on, it is still impossible to see it happen - blows me away every time).

That reminded me of a wonderful story that Julie Eng, the Magicienne, tells about one of her favourite reactions. It was initially written up in Linking Ring magazine, but subsequentally appeared as part of an interview on the Magic Bunny forum.

Julie Eng wrote:A few years back, a magic enthusiast visiting from San Francisco stopped into my father's (Tony Eng's) magic shop and watched quite a few sets of my father's demonstration pitches. He was particularly intrigued by Tony's handling of the Elmsley Count. After the demonstration, we got quite busy selling. The magic enthusiast leaned over and hinted to Tony that he would like to learn this version of the count, to which my father replied he was busy but would get his daughter (me) to show him. His crestfallen face said it all … “Eh? A little girl to teach me the Elmsley count? As if!”

My father insisted that I show him anyway, so I did. Immediately after I executed the count, he cried, “You see! That's not the Elmsley! She's only showing me four cards face down!! Look, the proper way to do it is to show three face down cards as four face down, but in reality the fourth one is face UP…” he stopped short and his face went a shade of purple-red, when I spread the cards to show that, indeed, three cards were face down and the fourth was face up

Priceless...

by **Michael Jay** » Aug 4th, '04, 14:39

GoldFish wrote:
I have a friend here in Toledo who does the Elmsley and it is seemless and invisible. He doesn't do it at his fingertips, though, which is the way that every other magician that I've watched do it.

Michael, I'm not quite sure how you mean "not at the finger tips"? Personally when I do an Elmsley the cards start off "deep" in my left hand, at the base of the thumb but then I use my right fingertips to pinch the cards during the counting. Does your friend place the cards deep into his right hand? If so I'd be very intrigued; after a quick play with a few cards I can't see a way of doing it that way. Sounds exciting.

This may be in Card College as Alan has suggested above...I don't know. However, there is NO pinching of the cards at the fingertips. Pick up four cards (and don't think like a magician doing a trick, think like a layman with a pack of four cards in his hand). Now, one at a time, count them from one hand to the other. No pinching, only sliding, as any normal person would do.

That is exactly what it looks like when my buddy here in Toledo does it. No doubt, it is how Julie Eng does it.

Mike.

by **seige** » Aug 4th, '04, 14:51

It has to be clarified that there are indeed numerous ways to execute an Elmsley count.

I think Michael, you're seeing a real deep EC, which practically indistinguishable from a regular small-packet deal if done properly.

No fingertips! The deeper EC is a far more natural looking move. Vernon, for example, was a user of the fingertip 'ghost count' of Elmsley's, and it's with this move that he made his 'Twisting the Aces' so seamless—because the fingertip action actually justifies part of the effect.

The deep-hand version is much more natural, and you really need to learn this method if you're performing effects such as NFW—which usually sketchily teach the fingertip method.

by **deanr201** » Aug 10th, '04, 23:16

I recently got NFW and i am having great trouble with it....jsut cant seem to pull it off. the instrucions i got with it for dong the elmsly count are rubbish. could some one help me please.

by **Mandrake** » Aug 11th, '04, 09:03

NFW! and situations with similar effects is roughly where all this discussion started on another thread yonks ago! The only real advice I can offer is to get either a DVD/Video or a decent book. Techno Card Magic is a great book and explained it very well to me. There are lots of vids/DVDs to choose from so phone the supplier and ask for their advice - most suppliers are magicians anyway and will know which are better than others. It's sad fact, and one which causes endless grief here, that you'll have to pay out more cash to learn the slight to do NFW! Having said that, it's well worth taking the trouble to do it right as the effect on the spectators is fantastic!

by **caubeck** » Dec 26th, '04, 18:35

Hi,

It's been quite a while, so maybe someone knows something new. Does anyone have a link to an online instruction video for this? I am waiting for NFW to arrive and want to prepare.

Many thanks,

Chris

by **IanKendall** » Dec 26th, '04, 23:32

I just stumbled on this thread.

The Ghost count was originally described as being done from a deep grip in Elmsley's Four Card Trick manuscript.

Vernon's fingertip handling is more useful in the Twisting the Aces as the Jordan count is easier from this position.

The best way to learn any count is from dealing grip, so there is a minimum of card movement. I also have a handling done face out at chest level.

Hopefully in the next couple of weeks I'll be able to put together a bunch of lessons on the core counts (a bit like Mentzer on video, if you will...)

Take care, Ian

by **caubeck** » Dec 27th, '04, 09:00

I'll be the first in line to download any video instruction guide on this topic, if I can afford it at the time! Let me know when it's ready!

Thanks,

Chris

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