talkmagic.co.uk

I was just angry about some stuff i've bought in the past. I will still leave it open because it is a good place to discuss exposure, and how far is to far... on a side note, i need some help.

Here's my problem. maybe you can help. i want to learn magic by a professional WITHOUT payING $100 a month to join a society that has a convention every year that costs $1500 to got to! It's not always about figuring out a trick; that's the easy part. It's learning skills. And sometimes the trick if it involves someting you just can't guess. It's hard to find a good magician exepect for online. Do they even expose anything in that Rericted section? Just looking for advice.

I've sent you a PM which answers some of these questions.

The restricted section doesn't expose tricks. It's an area only open to expereinced magicians to discuss technique and ideas openly without the risk of prying eyes.

dat's probably said it via pm, but take that $100s, and with the RRTCM and two others that you choose (shop around and read lots of reviews to decide which) - and you're sorted...

just because you havent the money, doesnt excuse trying to get it for free IF that's what you were doing...

no one can teach you creativity as such, a simple approach is to take a self worker, and transpose it over to other material other than cards...

then its hard graft - practicing, learning, performing...repeat until dead..

Yep, no need to spend hundreds of dollars (or quids for us English gentlemen). Just buy Royal Road to Card Magic, perhaps Karl Fulves More Self Working Card Tricks, 13 Steps to Mentalism, and you're sorted for life. Honestly. Oh, and there is this ebook called Five Fickle Fingers of Fate that you'll probably need as well...

Don't worry about the restricted area. It usually takes a few hundred years before you can get in there.

I've read a couple of your posts and it sounds to me as if you're started stumbling down the Ellusionist or worst still YouTube path, appologies if I'm wrong.

You're far better off getting a couple of decent books and spending time to learn the skills and techniques. I'd really recomend Mark Wilson's Complete Course to start with and then, when you've been through that book, cover to cover have a think about what areas of magic you want to expand your knowledge. And trust me, Mark Wilson's book will have enough to keep you going for a long time, I still use lots of his tricks in my performance routines.

I agree with everything that has been posted so far but I do have some sympathy about the fact that some things are hard to learn from a book and practical tuition from an experienced magician is a wonderful thing. Things like timing, introducing motivations for certain movements and audience management can be grasped so much more readily by one-to-one tution (in my opinion).

You could try asking at your local magic shop, the owner of my local shop runs groups lessons that are very reasonably priced - I don't know if this is common with other magic shops, maybe I'm exceptionally lucky.

Practical tuition from an experienced magician is indeed a wonderful thing. Unfortunately, it isn't always possible (which is why boards such as this exist). I further tend to agree with Lommy's observation here: ...it sounds to me as if you're started stumbling down the Ellusionist or worst still YouTube path...

It's not always about figuring out a trick; that's the easy part.

Wow, there's so much there that I don't know where to begin...

First, why do you want to figure out a trick? I know that sounds simplistic and obvious, but it is extremely important. Do you want to know how it's done so you can say, "Ha ha," to the magician performing? Do you want to figure it out because you are just a curious chap? Do you want to figure it out because you just can't stand not to know the secret and it eats away at you? Most importantly, do you want to figure it out because it makes you feel superior? Or, does not knowing make you feel inferior? Finally, do you want to figure it out because you want to be a magician?

Just for the record, figuring out every magic trick in existence doesn't make you a magician (although, if you're an overbearing guy who can't stand not to be the center of attention, it does make you a magician's worst nightmare).

It also worries me that you feel that figuring out a trick is the easy part. At this point, I have to wonder where you've seen the tricks that you've seen. If you are using youboob as a measuring stick of magic presentation, then I can only say that you are correct, figuring it out is fairly easy. If, however, you've seen a magician who is good at what he (or she) does, then figuring it out isn't quite so easy (mainly because he made the magic happen 5 minutes before you realize that it has and going back and trying to reconstruct what he did without the use of a pause or reverse function is nigh on impossible).

So, before you go any further, you must understand why you feel the need to figure magic tricks out and specifically what it is about magic tricks that makes them easy to figure out. This is a self analysis and an important part of starting to do magic for you (assuming that you honestly want to be a magician and perform for real people in real life).

It's learning skills.

Yes, that's what it is, it's learning skills. There are, however, many more skills than just the sleights. Even moreover, there are certain requirements that are generally not spoken of that are just as important - like taking a bath and using deoderant, coming your hair, cleaning and trimming your finger nails, brushing your teeth and learning people skills.

One book that is of great importance to every close up magician, particularly those who must walk up to groups or tables to ply their trade, isn't even a book on magic, specifically. "How to Win Friends and Influence People," by Dale Carnegie, is one of the best books you will ever invest in. This book contains very important information on dealing with people. If you are a magician, then this is what you do - you deal with people. Learn how to get them to like you instantly (long before you whip out your deck of cards) and you will already be ahead of the game comparatively with other magicians.

But, aside from the thumb palm and the Tenkai grip, what other skills are required? Well, there's the all powerful misdirection. There is also vocal skill - proper enunciation (if they can't understand what you're saying because you mumble, you are in trouble). There are theatrics involved and acting, of course. There is body language. There is script writing and blocking.

Now, let me let you in on a little secret...You'll learn more about being a magician on the main forums of this bulletin board than you will in the restricted area. It's all out here, for you to see and read. In the general scheme of things, the sleight of hand tools are the least of what a magician does.

Here's a quote from a magician whose name you should know:

"The true skill of the magician is in the skill he exhibits in influencing the spectator's mind. This is not a thing of mechanics. It is not a thing of digital dexterity. It is entirely a thing of psychological attack. It is completely a thing of controlling the spectator's thinking. Control of the perceptive faculties has nothing whatever to do with it. Convincingly interpreting, to the spectator, what the senses bring to him, in such a way that the magician's objectives are accomplished, is the true skill of the skilled magician." -Dariel Fitzkee-

If you are up to a very in depth and difficult read, then I would point you to the Fitzkee trilogy, that is availabe for free on the internet. He's not going to teach you any tricks, though. But, with time and diligence he will teach you to be a magician. Click here if you're interested.

As for other skills, why not take the time to read "Getting Started in Magic - a disorganised guide!" and "little tips..." both of which you'll find near the top of the Support and Tips forum. Those threads are jam packed with important tips and advice. Either open a word processing program or take out a notebook and copy the best of that advice (the best advice being that which you find most important to you and where you are in magic right now).

If you're still with me, you'll notice that learning magic hasn't cost you one, red penneth yet. Still, you're going to need material - even with the skills that I'm talking about above, you still gotta have tricks! Okay, so where to start? I will go with my advice to every magician under the sun - purchase and study this book. If you read that book, cover to cover, choose 3 magic tricks out of it to practice and rehearse, you will be a better magician and massively more entertaining that 99.99% of all magicians that you see on youboob. As an added bonus, that book is really, really cheap and easy to find.

And sometimes the trick if it involves someting you just can't guess.

This is one of your greatest short-comings and, sadly, you have actually chosen for it to be such (rather than something you must physically overcome). Why do you need to guess anything?

Because you want to watch someone else do a trick and then be them. You will not be your own magician, you will be a copy of someone else. Why could you possibly want that?

Sure, you can tell me that you don't want to be someone else, but if you don't honestly have a grasp of why the trick works (and it's not the sleights or method that makes it magic), then you can only mimic what you've seen. You see, without the proper building blocks and an understanding of why they work, then you aren't showing magic, you are showing a puzzle. If all you really want is to show puzzles, then I'm sorry for having wasted your time because this entire post is an abject exercise in uselessness.

If, however, you honestly want to learn magic, then stop trying to steal from people that you see demonstrating on Elusionist and the poor folks who butcher magic on youboob. Make the decision, right now, to honestly learn what magic is and what it's about - remember the Fitzkee quote above.

Spend a little bit of money on magic books or (shudder) DVDs. You are given some good advice all over these boards on what books you should have right from the start - find them (sometimes, you can even find them at your local library). And, there's a good suggestion...Check out what your local library has in their collection on magic books.

Stick around these forums, read what the more advanced members have to say and suggest. Learn.

Mike.

Nicely put, take this advice. This forum has changed my perspective on magic in the seven months I've been here. It's stopped ellusionist and youtube tutorials for me. I said thanks before but again thanks and this is good advice.

Well said Michael. Great advice.

Please read all of this

I understand that magic is not about the slieghts. I have seen many who have the sleights down, but their timing is off, or they accidently accentuate where the slieghts happen. For example, they will say something like, "Now this is your card... I just turned it over, RIGHT." and then moments later it has obviously changed to a different card. But of course some people probably expected that right away beause appearntly turning a card over is a big deal. Belive me I understand the importance of beilevable patter and misdirection, (You might have found this if you had read my signature). What i was reffering to was the only things you could get for free, and how they are not trulkey helpful.

AND I DO NOT WATCH YOU TUBE TUTORIALS!!! i wish you people would not jump to such conclusions. AND I have NOT bought one thing from Ellusionist, and I intend to stay away from it!
I'm not angry. I just wanted to make myself quite clear, as i find you misunderstood the above, and you were begginning to make your you- tube theory about me a fact. (Which it most certainly isn't.) So all I really wondered is if you had any fairly inexpensive product ideas. That's all. I'm sorry if the above post I made was poorly written... I just wanted to clear the air.

themagicwand wrote:Well said Michael. Great advice.

You can lead a donkey to water...

No worries, Mr. Bell.

This is the problem with forums - you can't see facial expressions nor read into voice inflections...It can all be very difficult.

You tell me look at your signature, well if you look at mine you'll realize that I'm just an ordinary, average guy - so if I have a problem understanding where you're coming from, cut me some slack (after all, I'm just an ordinary, average guy).

Still, I stand by my post above, because I did you give good advice.

The Fitzkee trilogy is free and packed with true wisdom of the sages.

The Alkazar book is the quintessential beginner's book. Hell, with more than 30 years of performing magic under my belt, I still read it at least once a year (it's entertaining, it's easy to read and it reminds me of things that I forget from time to time). It'll cost you about 5 bucks.

The two threads that I suggested you look over in support and tips is also free.

You said that you were looking for good stuff at little to no cost...Well, there ya are.

Now, there's still some stuff I'm not sure about. Please, don't get upset, but when I see things that don't add up, I have to ask questions to try to figure it out.

You stated that you don't want to pay a pro to teach you or have to join a group that will cost you an arm and a leg in the opening post. In your last post, you state that you've seen many magicians who don't make the grade. My question is, where exactly are you seeing all these magicians?

If you're seeing them in real life, then you should have an outlet of other magicians in plentiful amounts. If you're seeing them on the net, then this undermines your statement that you don't pick your stuff up off of youboob. This doesn't seem to add up (and I really do hate to question your veracity).

Also, you must understand that many of us on these forums will develop an opinion of who you are based on the posts that you make - not just the threads that we are on at that very moment. My very first impression of you was that you made some advice that was shaky at best while claiming to be a very knowledgable person, then turned around and asked if there was any form of muscle reading that doesn't involve feeling somone's pulse. Again, this doesn't add up.

Further, you seem to be put out by the fact that I am suggesting you are a youboob magician looking for secrets. You also ask that I read your whole post. Okay, well go back and read my whole post. One particular quote from it: "If you are using youboob as a measuring stick..."

Note the use of the word "if." That means that I don't know. Big word, that "if." What it doesn't mean is that I'm making a statement about you. If I were, I wouldn't use "if."

My closing, though, I can see where you feel that I'm accusing you of something that you may, or may not, be doing. Again, though, I can only judge by what I've read from you on these pages and from the information that you give me in your posts.

I believe that I answered your question in a fair manner. I don't feel that I was being derogatory to you in any way (and I don't feel that I'm being derogatory now). Nevertheless, perceptions are realities. So, if you perceive that I was being derogatory or arrogant, then you have my full apologies.

I shall await your answer to my question about where you've seen all these magicians and their mistakes before I continue. I will also wonder why you feel you need help when you can see where something is wrong in someone else's presentation but cannot apply those observations to your own work.

I look forward to your answer.

Mike.

I've seen magicians perorm poorley on you tube. I watch you tube if I want to see a trick performed, so that I know if I want to buy it or not, (many seem not to come with video demos.) or so I did. Now I simply stick to buying written materials and dvd's, and stay away from little gimmick tricks. I don't see why you are so content in not letting me defend myself. Perhaps I misunderstand what your saying? Look forward to hearing your answer/s.

Now I think it is time i renew my earlier question as well.
Any tips for inexpensive magic? If not, that is fine.

I don't watch you tube tutorials. I don't learn magic from you tube.

thanks

-Ben

I don't think that anyone was putting you down, I certainly didn't mean to and I'm sorry if it came across like that. The you tube\ ellusionist path is one that lots of people go down, mainly because they don't know any thing else.

If you're looking for a good way to get started then as I'm sure I've already said, Mark Wilson's Complete Course is a very very good book and you'll get lots of great tricks for your money.

Any tips for inexpensive magic?

How many more do you need?