talkmagic.co.uk

Is it me or does anyone else think that the recent trend in teaching magic to use as a method of 'pulling the burds' is a naff concept?

First, I recently noted the new Jay Sankey DVD, Firestarters, on Penguin's site. Whilst no doubt some of the taught tricks are probably good in their own right, I found it a real turn off whan I read........

Jay teaches you exactly how to determine real prospects, communicate your interest and availability, encourage flirting, fuel chemistry and (most importantly) GET THAT PHONE NUMBER!

I now note an even newer DVD realease, Flirting with Magic by Dr. Keelen Leyser and read ......

Flirting with Magic is the definitive guide to flirting in the twenty-first century. This DVD will add excitement to every night out. Imagine never being nervous about approaching someone you're attracted to ever again!

Presented by Dr.Keelan Leyser, Flirting with Magic will teach you over a dozen powerful magic effects specially designed to give you the edge in the dating game. These tricks are chosen specifically to help you break the ice, gain rapport, obtain and give contact details and get physical.

Am I the only one in thinking that the sales methods used here are devaluing our art? How many of these DVD's will be purchased by people who aren' interested in magic at all and will not only learn but then expose the techniques?

What do you think?

I suppose there's nothing morally wrong with the idea, but I think it's more than a little sad.

I know we probably all, at some time, like to impress the girls with a smart routine. Maybe even try to win more than their passing admiration. But I can't help thinking that this stuff smacks of desperation.

It's just a gut feeling with me. I know that anyone of any intelligence would be able to shoot my argument to pieces but I still can't help feeling.....

I know that anyone of any intelligence would be able to shoot my argument to pieces

i won't be able to! I agree with you compleatly!
it really does smack of desperation but once you got the girls phone number than what?
1st date do card tricks from royal road while in a fancy restraunt!
2nd date escape from a straight jacket while in back row of a cinima
3rd Date??? err doubt it!!

So ok maybe they might notice you but you need to have a reason to stay with you and i aint talking about that I am talking about personality
so magic can get you confidance which may help you get a date but other than that you get little more than a casual glance!!

PcwizMe

I think we all know, deep down, that no matter how skillful we are at Magic, or any other skill, that talent alone isn't going to ensure immediate romantic success with anyone. It's what we are apart from Magic which will count - I've been told that one or two apparently nice friendly, skillful professionals are (allegedly!) right nasty pieces of work in real life. To suggest that a DVD or book of magic tricks will seriously enhance your chances is, to say the least, hopeful and is about as likely as winning the lottery and having the cheque presented to you by Kylie in a wet tee shirt. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

Yeah.. I agree totally with ye lads.. in the Penguinmagic forums EVERYONE asks: "help me imoress that 13 tear old girl" laslalalala.. bla bla..i hate it.. seriously... do you think girls go: oh! what a cool trick.. i must get his phone number... erhm.. maybe.. but it's still a lttle sad concept.. GET DATES THE REGULAR WAY! much better..

Personally, now I've finished my DVD collection of Warner Brothers Looney Tunes cartoons, I could do with a good laugh and this DVD might be just the ticket.

In fact, I'd like to buy it so I can laugh at it and do a review, but I suppose I've better things to spend my money on.

Would I have to do a field test before ridiculing it, though?

Hmmmmmm.......

WHY NOT!! lol I accept the points made above about girls not falling for cheap tacjy card routines etc., but give Derren (I do this stuff to pick up women) Browns' book a read where he clearly states (if u read between the lines ) that 'mentalism' really does pull girlies in the right situation and he has (and prolly will continue) to flirt with the fair sex on a regular basis.

Anyways, if you do 'flirt' with the girls whilst performing you are selling yourself correctly (if done correctly and NOT in a harassing manner). Surely this is the point to being a good showman that people warm to you and enjoy what they are seeing more because of it.

Nuff said.....go perform for the fun of it and if your personality allows you to comfortably 'flirt' with girls then do it !


L8R

Yeh I think that's a bit sad, when the only way you can talk to a girl is to shuffle up to them with a pack of cards and "Wanna see a trick?".

I think talk to them, might be a little bit better...

By the way......... I don't encourage using our skills to try and pull girlies, cuz it don't work.......and I agree that using 'selling lines' like that to sell tricks etc. is a little cheesy (but sex sells!!)

As said in an earlier post get dates the proper way....!! lol But 'flirting' doesn't mean 'pulling' does it?????? I am happily living in sin with a long term partner and our 2 nippers, but I 'flirt' with lots of friends and acquaintances who happen to be girls, as does she with my male friends etc. but that is 'flirting' , NOT PULLING (She'd kill me!!!!!!)

And, if you are new to the game of magic and think that you will be a god to the opposite sex overnight by reading a couple of books.......go look on e-bay for pheremone sprays!!! Probably cheaper than magic books and probably less likely to work as well !!!

My point in the earlier post was that good old Derren seems to portray the fact that he can get noticed by women coz of the stuff he does and they do seem to enjoy being drawn into his little theatre of diversity that he employs.......he enjoys talking (or 'flirting' !?) with them.....but going further than that on the first trick.......I think not.......or if he can get further for sure then he would make a fortune selling the book !! But Derren Brown endorses 'flirting' as making your audience like you better and therefore enjoying your performance better - surely there is no harm!!!!!



L8R

The question isn't about flirting with magic.
We all do it, and there's no real harm in it.

But producing a DVD about how to get the girl ..... well that's different.... I think.

I won't be buying it anyway.

That's the point that I was trying to make Saxmad.

I agree that we probably all flirt from time to time whilst performing and it's a bye product of a good performance in my opinion.

However, I was disapointed that the marketing of these particular DVD's which do not appear to promote magic for the enjoyment of performing but instead, they appear to promote the ability to chat up the opposite sex using magic as the medium to achieve this.

I'm therefore of the opinion that this de-values magic in general when used solely for this purpose.

I am a guest here I was actually googling to see some reviews on "flirting with magic". I want to offer you a different point of view.
While no stranger to magic, I do it very rarely due to lack of audience and hence motivation. I enjoy it a lot, I need a lot of practice though but can't find enough people interested to watch my performance
So on a side note would be how do you guys handle that usually? (amateur magicians I mean..)

Anyways, on the other hand, I have been more interested in an art of seduction recently. And here is the audience is plenty as well as results
So, in seduction, magic and other performances is to be used sparingly. Very much like clever humour. Rare, clever and to the point.

Magic in particular is good on the very beginning stages - to attract a girl's interest to you and demonstrate your high value. It's like a prop that makes girls interested in you and want to know more about you.
Once that is accomplished, you don't want to come across as a magician, as it is just one of your many qualities.
If you continue tricks for a long time (or will be a comedian) you will be put in the "entertainer" category and basically all your chances to date her are gone

So, I think nothing is wrong in using magic to make a girl interested. You then go on to other topics. But she gets fascinated with magic and mystery. And I am sure on this tape(or book) they teach NOT TO tell the secrets behind the trick. Why? because it KILLS THE ATTRACTION.
Also, probably the kind of tricks that are there are probably very basic.
Remember the idea is not to impress with magic skills but just come across as a "man of mystery".

Hence, my interest in this tape. What I need is several tricks with as powerful effect as possible, but ideally done without any prop. And most importantly tricks that can be easily, quickly and naturally demonstrated. Without too much preparation or anticipation. Just as I am talking with a girl, out of the blue I do a quick magic trick and continue the conversation as it did not happen.


On a side note, palm reading, handwriting analysis, Tarot cards, horoscope analysis, personality tests etc. can be used as well as magic tricks at this stage of seduction - to spark a girl's interest in you.

BTW if a seduction community will learn some magic tricks, some of them might like it and it means spreading the word about magic, right?

Why not give a poor guy who is not great with women a chance:
1. to learn some cool magic tricks
2. to become better with women or to date more girls
and to give girls a chance to date a guy who is an interesting person?
To me it's all good stuff

I hope I gave you some insight and showed you a different side of a coin.

Magically Yours,
Krolikovod

But there is a slightly insidious side to these videos.

Magic is used, not just for entertainment or to attract attention, but also to find out if the lady is attached, to get her phone number, even to have some slight physical contact (holding hands etc).

Do you guys find this distasteful?

If I want a lady's phone number I ask for it directly. I don't trick her into giving it to me.

If I want a lady's phone number I ask for it directly. I don't trick her into giving it to me.

I think that that is a little harsh. There's a world of difference between showing someone a trick and tricking them.

Also, it's very easy to say you would just go up to a lady and ask for her number, there are a lot of people who are less confident than that, and so magic could be for them used as an ice breaker.

If used as nothing more than a reason for approaching and starting a conversation then I really don't see any harm in it.

Fact is we all sell ourselves all the time using a whole host of methods, from a simple smile to the way we dress, the car we drive, the complements we make etc.
Without some form of selling ourselves first the chances of a lady giving out her number to some guy that just walks up out of the blue and asks for it are very very small.

However I have no interest in teaching non magicians how to use magic to flirt apart from anything else it loses it's power if everyone can do it