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I remember reading that the same happened to Richard Webster when he was doing a palm reading after he had like a major headache. He didn't KNOW what he was saying, but just certain things that jumped out at him.

Well thanks for all the interesting replys.

I In no way wanted to act like a butt head and show off or heckel. I guess my motive is to see if Someone, who had devoted a modest amount of time to the study of magic, a nonpro, could be taken as real. It will be a great result if they are able to catch me out or suspect me tricking them.

As has been mentioned in the posts, it is the fact that they are claiming to teach subjects which are routed in pseudoscience and are nontestable.
I think the general message here is to check the ego at the door and enjoy the experience with an open mind and take from it what I will.


Thanks

Always check that pesky ego!

You know I used to teach psychic workshops and still regularly attend such workshops myself, the people you meet can be invaluable to your career as a magicians/mentalist/psychic entertainer/ and private reader.

Due to new age shop lectures, enlightenment centre workshop and even local college classes on the subjects I met some of the most amazing psychics and shut eye readers! (Networking my friend!)

But also what you can learn from people who earn their living doing the work you read in theory about! Just wait there are methods of divination unheard of until you meet those who legitimately believe and practice divination! Also I can say I have never had better Halloween Parties with the friends I made at these types of events, the stories, ghost hunts and seances...Of course I am more open-minded than te regular mentalist but none-the-less an entertaining and lively bunch, what Jon Riggs calls the "Fantasy Prone"

Anyways I think you get the message from some of the seasoned pros on here, about what you shall and shall not do in regards to this oppurtunity. So you don't need my word, But anyways YES please do attend, in Magic you are on a constant learning journey and what a better way to learn magic then those who live it. Although you do not nessecarily have to believe in their practices or theologies it is like watching a documentary, I cannot tell you how many times I have been influenced to write presentations based off of my expierences with the Rosicrucians, Freemasons, Pagan communities, and even my own family's involvement with the ancient Norse Traditions.

In learning magic, do not LIMIT yourself to the ideas of just Magicians. Now you may not have any desire to perform Bizarre Magick or Mentalism, but the writings of Christian Chelman I would fully reccomend to you as he deals with this Idea. (even though he is a magician, he draws upon countless sources in his magick such as antiques and history, anyways his theory is that the magicians goal is likened to that of a shaman, although the magician claims no supernatural powers he, like the shaman, are in the process of creation and forming and seperate reality in which the spectator is transported to)(all very interesting stuff)

Anyways, I think that the second most important brother to the Magician is the Psychic. (Thirdly the actor)

*There is a wonderful interview with Christian Chelmana in the October 2007 Genii (a wonderful read)

I find what Paul said to be very interesting. I have always said that the more tired I get the more accurate the readings. I don't know why this is. You would think it would be the opposite. I think what happens is that the logical mind shuts down and the subconcious psychic part of the brain seems to take over.

Sometimes when I just can't figure out what to say or if a situation just eludes me I leave it to the universe, shut down the logical part of my mind and let the intuition flow. I put myself in a kind of trance when I do this. And of course it is easier to do so when I am tired.

Zarrow wrote:Well thanks for all the interesting replys.

I In no way wanted to act like a butt head and show off or heckel. I guess my motive is to see if Someone, who had devoted a modest amount of time to the study of magic, a nonpro, could be taken as real. It will be a great result if they are able to catch me out or suspect me tricking them.

As has been mentioned in the posts, it is the fact that they are claiming to teach subjects which are routed in pseudoscience and are nontestable.
I think the general message here is to check the ego at the door and enjoy the experience with an open mind and take from it what I will.


Thanks

I can name two members of this board that could tell you how ugly believers (and, possibly, frauds) can get when faced with an undercover mentalist at their party.

That's not my story to tell, but it's one that deserves retelling...

Pete

pcwells wrote:
I can name two members of this board that could tell you how ugly believers (and, possibly, frauds) can get when faced with an undercover mentalist at their party.

That's not my story to tell, but it's one that deserves retelling...

Pete

Yes. The mentalist may believe that at the end of the day, when the truth is out, the shut eyes will laugh, shake their heads at how silly they've been, thank the mentalist for enlightening them, and all ride off into a glorious new sunset together.

The truth is of course slightly uglier. The beliefs of the shut eyes become more entrenched, people become frustrated, offended, outraged, and violent thoughts may enter the heads of those with that kind of disposition. Not fun at all.

I just wonder - would any mentalists "crash" a Jesus Army workshop or an Alpha Course meeting and then employ mentalist techniques to "fool" the believers? Or convert to Islam for a a laugh?

Following a very boozy lunch many years ago I remembered that I was due to be interviewed on the radio about half an hour previously. I rushed over to the ITN studios and rambled through a technical discussion. When I heard the recording I found myself listing off all sorts of details that, frankly, I did not 'know'. I double-checked them and they were right, which means that so was I. Apparently somewhere in the back of my brain these details were floating around.

I wonder if being in a similar situation (including being simply tired/emotional) can unlock perception to a point. I don't mean in a 'psychic' way, according to the definition that most people including myself have of that word. But maybe some ancient brain node kicks in and you can get better access to your intuition. Or something...

What shook my beliefs was a look at the history of the "golden age" of spiritualism; the way in which styles of manifestation would drop out of fashion a short while after methods for faking those manifestations were exposed. If you provide a method to a shut-eye, it will only be seen as "another method" or a way of faking the real deal. Any medium caught out is either the bad apple, or had buckled under the pressure to come up with the goods when the spirits weren't playing ball. Resolving cognitive dissonance is usually fairly easy.

Ted wrote:When I heard the recording I found myself listing off all sorts of details that, frankly, I did not 'know'. I double-checked them and they were right, which means that so was I.

There's a similar story to the scene in Bladerunner where Batty is talking to Tyrell. The script writer "made up" a lot of the technical discussion about the problems of increasing longevity, but apparently all of the stuff said is basically sound.

In my new book, "Reader of Minds", (out soon folks! ) I discuss this 'stream of consciousness' technique of doing readings. It is quite frightening how close to the truth this kind of babble can be.

It may all be in there folks, but I still haven't figured out what it all means!

I have to confess , that a great amount of my posts on this and other forums relly on this phenomena. ( from time to time)
And i can attest to the fact that i trust intuitin, whole heartedly.

But it only works, if you learn when to keep your mouth shut.
( I.E those times when you realy dont have a clue)

I have to say, that often the information that coes out is so accurate, i wonder wether im channeling the spirits of those master magicians who have passed over.

Ted wrote:Following a very boozy lunch many years ago I remembered that I was due to be interviewed on the radio about half an hour previously. I rushed over to the ITN studios and rambled through a technical discussion. When I heard the recording I found myself listing off all sorts of details that, frankly, I did not 'know'. I double-checked them and they were right, which means that so was I. Apparently somewhere in the back of my brain these details were floating around.

I wonder if being in a similar situation (including being simply tired/emotional) can unlock perception to a point. I don't mean in a 'psychic' way, according to the definition that most people including myself have of that word. But maybe some ancient brain node kicks in and you can get better access to your intuition. Or something...

Ive often told the story about the time i cold read someone, o the point i was producing names and dates, and details of their death, that had to be verified from this persons mother over the phone in Ireland.

To this day i have no idea how i new some of the stuff, even though i know the framework i constructed to gain the information.

That was after a few pints.

And i tried it again last month, and it didnt really work.

untill i mentioned the first time to this woman.. and then i asked her why she had stopped wearing her grandmothers ring.

It was being mended.

I'd be tempted to ask that as "Why aren't you wearing your grandmother's ring?" a question that resolves to the statement "your grandmother has/had a ring."

Still only book learning on cold reading so far, though...

Paul That's a great story thanks for sharing. I have times when i've been tired or drinking, even sometimes when not and just had information come to me and it's been right. God knows where it came from? I've also had some very weird dreams that happened after near enough spot on with just the odd difference.

At one of my recent Edinburgh shows, a mobile phone started ringing in the audience. I grabbed it and answered it - I'd seen the name 'Sarah' appear on the display, so I greeted the caller by name.

I pulled the obvious stunt of having the caller think of a playing card. I could have hedged my bets and named the Queen of Hearts, then pulled an ID from my pocket if I was wrong, but on this occasion, I had no backup, it was a midnight show, I was in the flow of things, and for some odd reason I called out the ace of diamonds.

Even without the benefit of speakerphone, the whole audience heard a scream coming from the mobile phone.

I felt very pleased with myself, and the rest of the show went swimmingly.

Pete