talkmagic.co.uk

true, presentation is basically all of it. But you have to admit that Jay Sankey comes up with some of the coolest effects

also I like Blaine because how he acts he just seems magical his whole apperence and how he talks is very convinsing.

Well Robert, you put together a very impressive argument.

I would however add that it is somewhat difficult to make a fair comparison between Copperfield and Blaine, since they present their "tricks" in totally different ways.

I suppose most of us, if we were honest, find we like the "Coolness" oozing from Blaine. On the other hand, Copperfield puts on an amazing performance (not that I've ever seen him).

I suppose if we were rating Magicians on who gave the best "Razzmatazz, big show / full blown" entertainment, then it must go to Copperfield.

If on the other hand you were handing out prizes to the guy who performs the closest to "real, in your face... no gimmicks” (although we know otherwise) type of Magic, then Blaine gets the Scooby Snack.

It's “horses for courses”.

At the end of the day, you've got to give them both full credit and God knows I'd like to be in either of their shoes (although if you pinned me down, I suppose I'd lean in Blaine's direction.

... Tony

I agree with Tony, I think you can only say this guy's the best at this and someone else is better than that. However, I personally wouldn't say that Blaine is the best on the street, I think Paul Zennon is better, he has the tricks and on top of that a personality, which is what I think Blaine lacks. Having said that though, Blaines audiences seem happy wth his style, I think if I tried to perform like that people would get bored and wonder off, perhaps they do for Blaine and he just doesn't show that on TV!
Going back to Paul Zennon for a minute, as well as being a great magician on the street, his stage shows are fantastic too, he doesn't do Copperfield style illusions but he is very funny and does some good magic too. I am not sure if it's still running but if you have a chance to see his "Off the street, on the road" tour hen I highly recommend it.
Nick

One of my favorite things to do is: Study a Blaine trick and come up with a much better way to present it. Then, when I am strolling on the street and people say, "Do some Blaine stuff," I can blow them away -- and they usually proclaim, "You're even better than David Blaine!"

Well, I certainly don't consider myself the greatest magician but I do wonder how Blaine is considered for this title. (Must be because he is on TV)

Anyway, I have studied lot's of Copperfield stuff and I'd challenge anyone to come up with a better way to present ANYTHING that he does. In fact, there are magicians out there who "attempt" to copy his effects and fall sadly short of the beautiful and emotional impact that Copperfield creates.

Copperfield is simply the perfectionist that we all wish we could be -- close-up, stage, or card manipulations -- he does it all. Flawlessly.

No argument from me re. your Copperfield comments, but just to pick up on one thing you said, about Blain and why he is considered good (ooops, I initially spelt it god - Fraudient slip!)

You suggest that Blaine is considered good "BECAUSE" he's on TV. I would respectfully say he is on TV "BECAUSE" he's good. He's right up there because of the type of magic he performs and in my opinion, because of the way he performs it.

The reason he makes an impact, is because of the totally laidback (almost drugged) way he presents his effects. Let's face it, he just comes across "weird / different" and people can kind of put that together with magic. I would add that spectators like the totally simplistic type of magic he chooses to perform.

... Tony

I appreciate your respect for David Blaine. I respect him very much as well.

He IS good and I don't want to put him down.

However, I do what he does, and I am told very often that I do it better, so I simply can't see voting for him as "the best."

As a rule of thumb, when I think of "the best" I think of a person who is so skilled that no other person could duplicate their results. So, that brings me back to David Copperfield...

...because no magician has been able to come close even though they ALL have been trying (to come close) for years. He performs 500 shows a year and earns 33 million dollars annually.

If David Copperfield is not "the best," then who could it possibly be?

Again, no argument from me re. your comments and to be honest, you are in a better position than me to comment anyway, since I am only an enthusiastic amateur.

I would dearly love to see Copperfield's act. I am sure it would blow me away.

Oh well, next time he's in the UK, you can be assured I will endeavour to catch it.

Regards... Tony

The difference between Copperfield and Blaine is their style. Whilst Blaine does close-up magic extremely well, Copperfield is a fantastic illusionist.
So a comparison is sort of pointless.
As a fan of both styles, I cannot choose between the two, but for sheer 'wow' factor, then David Copperfield must get my vote for the sheer size and scale of the illusion.
But you can see why David Blaine is so popular at the moment - his tricks are available to anyone willing to learn them. David Copperfields on the other hand - you need to re-mortgage your house to fund just one of his tricks!

Well said Matthew!

... Tony

Magicians

I guess we all have our favourites for differing reasons but here’s my list – purely in alphabetical order of course!

David Berglas. The stuff this guy did on 60’s TV was mind blowing. With a very quiet, laid back style, he presented some first class entertainment. The Best Magic Tricks show last year showed one of his most stunning (at the time), the Levitating Table – even though I could now figure out how it was done. I’d certainly place David as one of the cornerstones of British Magic.

Marvin Berglas. Son of above. I understand that he’s quite accomplished but I just wish he’d stop hawking the same stuff on QVC etc – it’s very difficult to perform those tricks these days as you’re bound to get someone in the ‘audience’ who has bought them and, even if they can’t perform them, they know the secrets. OK, I confess – I’ve bought some of his stuff and it’s certainly good value and quality – I’d just like to be able to show them more often!

David Blaine. Er, this is where I probably upset a lot of you but I really can’t take to this guy much. I’ve read his Man of Mystery book and, assuming the details of his background are correct, you get the impression of a disadvantaged guy who has worked his way up through adversity and hard work to reach where he is today. On this score I salute him. OK, a lot of the book content is historical and can be gleaned from other sources – as I’m sure he and his ghostwriter did – but it’s worth a read or two for that at least. Where I start to lose interest is when he performs on TV for those weirdo oddballs on the streets of the USA and, having pulled off a rather basic (but well done) effect, they go completely over the top in terms of freaking out and probably rush off to the Analyst’s couch for several expensive hours of therapy. I’m pleased to see the recent mickey-take TV adverts for I can’t Believe It’s Not Butter are poking fun at all this. Most of us know about the levitation thing and, frankly, this ain’t magic its just TV editing and comes under the heading of unacceptable cheating as far as I’m concerned. In his book, with great irony, David quotes Houdini as saying, after the failure of his film production venture, “No illusion is good in a Film, as we simply resort to camera trix, and the deed is did”. Perhaps David should take great note of the Master’s words! David’s attempt to appear as some sort of truly supernatural person falls far short of target and becomes more irritating as the show goes on. Having said that, once he cracks his face into a smile I can see underneath a genuine guy who is probably very skilled. I can’t fault him for his approach as it probably suits the kind of audience – and advertisers/TV companies – who support it. I’d really like to see him just sit down at a table and go through suitable close up routines without all that street cr*p – I bet he’d have a larger fan club as a result. My apologies to all DB Fans!

Ali Bongo. We don’t often see Ali perform on TV but he’s probably had some involvement with just about every successful well-known (and probably less well-known) Magician. On countless programmes you see his name as a consultant of one kind or another and even David Copperfield has benefited from Ali’s shills & knowledge. According to the blurb from a recent Radio Times poll/article, Ali was the inspiration behind the character of Jonathan Creek. Hmmm – the character certainly changed a lot before arriving on screen!

Derren Brown. Sorry, leaves me cold. That mental supremacy thing is a complete turn off but, according to the blurb on the packet of ‘Diceman’ by Andy Nyman, he was completely fooled by it so at least he’s human. Haven’t read his Pure Effect book but am waiting to borrow it!

Lance Burton. Almost in the same league as David Copperfield (see below), but not quite. On the TV show repeated/broadcast earlier this year, the only item which gave me the ‘wow’ effect was where he levitated a young lady on a beach. No visible support at all, hoop right around etc. I’m still gobsmacked! Perhaps I get the wrong impression from his TV shows but seems just a tad too smarmy at times. Can’t fault his professionalism and routines though!

Chan Canasta. Very popular back in the 50’s and 60’s and was probably better known for true mental feats such as perfect recollection of a run of cards etc. I remember the time when he appeared on BBC (we had just the one channel in those dark days, folks!) with a horn-type apparatus and said he would blow all the TV sets in the country. Putting it to his lips he blew and suddenly the picture disappeared to be replaced with that little fading diminishing dot that you used to get when the TV was turned off. I nearly had an involuntary bowel movement as we’d only had our TV for a few months and I though I’d get the blame! Fortunately it was only a joke and there’s plenty of reference to this event on websites elsewhere. Although I was only knee high to a grasshopper at the time (honest!), I thought he was a most charming person.

Tommy Cooper. No list would be complete without some mention of this guy. More of a comic than a magician – even though he could give most ‘professional’ magicians a run for their money in terns of skill and repertoire – Tommy is better remembered for the fooling around. Can’t fault it for entertainment but not really magic as such.

David Copperfield. Hmmm. I guess he must be the Mr.Big of the Magic world but I can’t help but think that if someone else had all the cash and equipment, wouldn’t they be able to do just as well? Perhaps not. Extremely entertaining and obviously skilful but a bit too ‘large scale’ for my taste at times. I missed the chance to see him live a few years back but those who went are still talking about it now so there must be a different effect compared to just watching his TV appearances. Full marks for keeping magic at the forefront of entertainment – even if it is mainly in the USA.

Paul Daniels. You have to give this guy credit for keeping the flame of Magic alive almost single-handed – at least on TV. As the golden boy of BBC he entertained us all for many years and was then ceremonially dumped overnight – no wonder he sometime sounds a little bitter in interviews. Perhaps a bit too brash and cocky for current tastes, I heard on the grapevine that he was quite capable of upsetting folks if he didn’t get his way. Was he being a Prima Donna or just a perfectionist wanting things to be right? It’s your choice. I lived in South Bank, Middlesbrough for a short while and I can assure you all that Paul’s personality is very much based on the upbringing in that part of the world – great people and they won’t put up with second best. The amount of other magical acts which got attention and expose by being guests on his show was tremendous and I really can’t remember any of them that weren’t in the top league as far as entertainment value went. All different to each other, of course! Paul is very accomplished, very skilful, and has to be somewhere at the top of the tree. He gets full marks from me for introducing (20 odd years ago!) his range of tricks, via the long deceased Magic Marketing Ltd, which offered professional, high quality props at reasonable prices in the face of all those cheap ‘Christmas Cracker’ plastic things, which are still offered today, as ‘good quality’ items.

Wayne Dobson. I never got to the bottom of the supposed ‘feud’ between him and Paul Daniels but Wayne is 100% entertainment. I saw him some years ago at The Alexandra Theatre Birmingham where, due to a total lack of proper advertising and bad weather conditions, the Wednesday night audience totalled 11. A further 2 folks arrived 10 minutes late and Wayne did them a quick fire verbal resume of all that had taken place so far – hugely comical. At various points during the evening he’d announce his next illusion and say, ‘I’ll do it for you now - all (counting the audience out loud) one, two three, four (etc.) of you’. We were treated to over 2 hours of stage magic but with the feel and style of cabaret/close up - it’s a pity there were only a few of us there to see this. Very amusing personality, very comical, very skilful and I’m pleased to see that he’s still performing despite declining health. Long may he continue. Even without Linda Lusardi and that daft rabbit!

Geoffrey Durham. He scores on at least 2 counts: 1) Having the sheer nerve to wear the wig and persona of The Great Soprendo and 2) Being Mr.Victoria Wood. Geoffrey is a very accomplished performer but, sadly, his face doesn’t seem to fit these days. This is a shame as he can entertain – and amuse - for hours.

The Amazing Jonathon. Oh boy! This guy is a complete nutter but, for some reason, entertains me highly! I wouldn’t normally pay any attention to such outlandish acts but, even when he shoves a skewer though his tongue, rotates it gruesomely, and then reveals it as a prop ‘come on folks, it’s only rubber!’, I just sit there asking for more. Perhaps not so much a magician but more a magical extreme comic but who cares – he’s solid entertainment!

Max Maven. Having only seen this guy on the box I’ve probably not seen his best stuff but there’s one routine, performed on TV, which had great impact. It’s the one where 9 methods or instruments of murder are displayed and, following instructions from ‘off stage’ the magician knows which is the final one and steers the volunteer towards it. OK, probably an old routine but can have a super effect if performed right. One method would be to pre-record on tape all the instructions for the moves, have someone look after it and the method/instrument cards for at least a week then, on ‘the night’ get a couple of volunteers to play the tape and do all the hard work. Naturally, the lady volunteer is the one who becomes the murderer! Max is a bit ‘stage’ magician with his enhanced hairline but what the hell, he’s good entertainment!


David Nixon. A gentle man in every sense, David always seemed to be presenting ‘minor miracles’ on almost every TV variety show during the 1950’s and 60’s. He seemed to be a little on the nervous and slightly shaky side at times – this may have been sheer nerves or just part of a persona designed to get you on side but, either way, he was never brash. Lots of David Nixon Magic sets sold as a result of his career and, somewhere up in the loft, I know I have one of his books of Magic. Might be worth a bit now but I’d never part with it! He was one of the first (if not the very first) to work with Basil Brush but survived the encounter to give us all good, solid entertaining magic.

Penn & Teller. Brash, in ya face, close to being offensive, but still, somehow, quite entertaining! I don’t like much of their stuff and I still think it’s cheap TV to show how some of their effects are done. The secrets of the good ones are still preserved so perhaps they aren’t too bad. Full marks for an individual presentation style.

Having said all the above, and completely out of alphabetical sequence, my favourite has to be:

Doug Henning. Up to the time that Doug came to public notice, most magicians were either in full evening dress, Dinner Jacket/Black Tie, or pseudo Oriental/Egyptian garb. Doug appeared in tie-dyed tee shirts, flared trousers (oh come on, it was the late 60’s early 70’s!) and, with his long hair and moustache, looked as though he’d either fallen off the Sergeant Pepper Album cover or was auditioning as first reserve for the BeeGees. The first routine I saw him do was the torn and restored cigarette paper but he had bare arms and was seated on a see-through Perspex type set which made the whole process even more amazing. It wasn’t until long after that I realised I’d seen a very, very old routine but the presentation was fresh and exciting – for the times. Some folks thought his style of show was a bit too frivolous with dancers and stuff around him as though it were another edition of Top of The Pops but how many of the current stage greats use dancers for misdirection? It’s a shame he veered off in a totally different direction and, of course, he’s no longer with us but for me at least, he’s at the top of the list. Even though he’s right here at the bottom – if you know what I mean!

That’s about it for now – if I’ve missed anyone off it’s either because I haven’t seen them or they didn’t really stick in the old memory. I could have mentioned Jeremy Beadle’s TV Magic presentation a few years ago – but I won’t - and I could have mentioned the amazing magic of a young lady hitch hiker I once gave a lift to in the late 1960’s She put her hand on my leg and I turned into a lay-by. Boom, boom. Sorry – couldn’t resist!

[Anonymously Posted by: 'Paul Stevens']

Well Paul, what can I say. That was one hell of a posting! I don't think this board has seen the like before! It is just a shame that such a small number of people visit here nowadays.

Although I don't like sending people elsewhere, you really must post this on a busier board, so others can benefit. Possibly "The Magic Bunny" site of "The Magic Cafe"?

One interesting point. You mention David Berglas' levitating table effect. Interestingly my Father, who died a few weeks ago, was one of the people around that table. If you have the video, he was wearing glasses (as I recall).

Thanks once again for your post and I only wish I could have been the twelfth member in the audience at the Wayne Dobson show you attended.

Regards... Tony

Hi Tony, thanks for your response, I'm glad to see that somebody has read my blurb - even if the moderators seem to have abandoned ship!

I had a look at the Magic Cafe last week after seeing it mentioned in one of the postings and I have to agree with the assessment there that it's a little daunting to say the least! Anyway, I'll give it a go and see what happens.

I saw from the various past messages that your Father had passed away, sorry to hear that, but what a fantastic piece of history that he took part in the David Berglas effect I remember so well! Was he just from the audience or was he one of David’s ‘helpers’? I may be showing my age or just sounding like an old f*rt but a lot of the 'old timers' like David seem to have known more about the importance of entertainment than a lot of the later guys. Wayne Dobson is an exception as he was so funny on that night I thought my trousers would never dry.

I see from various other websites that Tom Cruise is either about to star, or has starred, in a Channel 4 backed film about Jasper Maskeleyne. I can't imagine anyone less like the archetypical Englishman that Jasper was than Tom Cruise! I only hope it's not going to be another effort where the Brits are shown to be useless, or left out of it, and the good ol' US cavalry wins the war single handed! Both father and son Maskeleynes, Devant & Co are such a part of British history, I would have thought only a Brit could play the part. I wonder who other folks would see in the role!

[Anonymously Posted by: 'Paul Stevens']

Thanks for your comments re. my Dad.

To answer your question, he was a "helper", in fact there were two of them (which may make it easier to work out!)

David actually came to my Dad's funeral and knowing my interest in magic, had even brought out from his pocket four £1.00 coins... Alas we were "disturbed" by another well wisher, so I will never know what he was going to do with them.

He was at my parents 50th at the end of last year and performed a card trick for me that I think about at least every other day. In fact I posted the details of it somewhere on this site if you care to scan for it. Perhaps you can enlighten me!

A great man and it's good to see his Son has followed in the family business, although on a slightly more commercial basis I agree.

Regards... Tony

Hi there, yes, I noticed that there were 2 ‘helpers’ and it’s fairly easy to spot them during the alternate hand raising bit. The weird thing as far as I’m concerned is that it doesn’t matter if I know the secret, I can appreciate the routine and effect even more than watching it in ignorance.

I’m not surprised to hear your opinion of David, he always appears to be a gentleman but you have me intrigued about the four £1 coins now – if you ever find out, please let me know so I can get some sleep again! Will go scan the archives for the card trick and let you know if I can shed any light. Of course, the real beauty of this sort of thing is that there’s usually more than one way to achieve an effect so, on the rare occasions when people ask me if I know how a trick is done, I can only respond by saying that I know how I’d do it but not necessarily how the performer did it. Re Marvin, the big thing in his favour is that he, and the guys who work with him, always seem to have fun doing the routines and if you enjoy what you’re doing it makes the world of difference. I was looking at some of the old Paul Daniels high quality tricks I referred to – specifically Dynamic Coins (old 5p size, unfortunately) – and, if you allow for inflation, the price of that routine from Marvin is actually less than it was 20 odd years ago – nice one Marvin!

[Anonymously Posted by: 'Paul Stevens']