talkmagic.co.uk

Do you buy magic effects, be it tricks or DVD's, even if you know how the effect is done?

yup - if i like the presentational angle, or the whole premise sounds at very least a little different and interesting - i'll happily buy it...

dont really care about the method or technique really...

jhmagic1 wrote:Do you buy magic effects, be it tricks or DVD's, even if you know how the effect is done?

In some cases it's far more wise to do so. I've seen dozens of girls get seriously hurt because some cheap skate magician thought he was Johnny Gaughan and built a questionable levitation or suspension device... I'll not even talk about the two or three big cat props I've seen shredded.

It does not matter how big or small the prop, there are just certain pieces that one is smarter to pay for in that you may (probably) lack the skills, insight and experience that's required for making your own. I've proven this to numerous garage mechanics that use the very same schematics we used in our shop... some of the actual Thayer prints... yet the inexperienced person produces something that's barely deceptive or even sturdy enough to endure regular use; they aren't familiar with available materials that can make a prop stronger, yet thinner; how different kinds of paints and trims will either make or break the over-all effectiveness of the illusion in question... the list goes on and on.

So yes, it is oft times best to buy... especially when you know for a fact that you haven't the skills or knowledge for making something yourself that will look good and be 99% dependable.

When you say "even when you know how it is done", I assume you are talking about the method, or "secret".

The method is not really how it is done - the mystery and entertainment usually lie in the performance. How is it that two folks performing the same effect will "do" it completely differently? With one it may fall flat, but in the hands of another it might seem like a miracle. By studying the performances of others, you can learn quite a bit. How do they use their eyes? How is the misdirection accomplished? How are the various phases of an effect timed? How is the audience controlled? How is the staging, framing, footwork, et al, effecting the strength of the illusion?

You can also learn alot about how NOT to do something.

Additionally, if there are effects you really like, you may want to make a very thorough study of it, for example, the cups and balls or the sponge trick.

Caution should be employed so that you do not simply copy another performers style or presentation - you must always fit an effect to your own style and personality. Your magic won't be great until it becomes YOU.

Knowing many secrets is fun, but developing a single effect into a masterpiece can be the most satisfying for a performer.

I have often been fooled by tricks I "knew", and have fooled others with their own trick! The art is not in the secret, any more than knowing how a piano is played makes you a musician, especially if you have not even perfected even one song. On the road to perfection, there is always something to learn from others.

If i only bought items that used methods i dont know, I wouldnt have many products to choose from.

You have to have a good general knolwedge of magical methods, in order to choose things that suit your style.

As has been said above, once you've been in magic fgor a few years I think you get to a point where you can figure out how most things are done. It those little tried and tested subtlties that you'll get if you buy the product and ususally a descussion on the presentation that make it really worth while.

Shufton wrote:When you say "even when you know how it is done", I assume you are talking about the method, or "secret".

The method is not really how it is done - the mystery and entertainment usually lie in the performance. How is it that two folks performing the same effect will "do" it completely differently? With one it may fall flat, but in the hands of another it might seem like a miracle. By studying the performances of others, you can learn quite a bit. How do they use their eyes? How is the misdirection accomplished? How are the various phases of an effect timed? How is the audience controlled? How is the staging, framing, footwork, et al, effecting the strength of the illusion?

You can also learn alot about how NOT to do something.

Additionally, if there are effects you really like, you may want to make a very thorough study of it, for example, the cups and balls or the sponge trick.

Caution should be employed so that you do not simply copy another performers style or presentation - you must always fit an effect to your own style and personality. Your magic won't be great until it becomes YOU.

Knowing many secrets is fun, but developing a single effect into a masterpiece can be the most satisfying for a performer.

I have often been fooled by tricks I "knew", and have fooled others with their own trick! The art is not in the secret, any more than knowing how a piano is played makes you a musician, especially if you have not even perfected even one song. On the road to perfection, there is always something to learn from others.

I think we all need to go back and read this post again... some very solid information here

KUDOS!

I love this post. This type of thing is why magic dealers pretty much agree that you make the most off a particular customer in the first 3 yrs.
I've never shown a customer more then two or three tricks in one shot. I'd show an effect if the price is within thier grasp and their jaw drops and they put it on the counter to purchase the effect I'll go ahead and show them another. Now if I show another and they want the one I've just shown and put the first one back I don't show them another effect.

Why? Because I've lost that first sale forever. The customer is not going to come back in and buy that first effect because they have already seen it. It no longer matters that their jaw hit the floor and they don't know how its done. (yes if they last in the hobby they may come back years later and purchase the effect but its rare) many show every bloody trick in the shop and the customer walks away with a 3 dollar svengali deck. Two days later the customer comes back in wanting something new because they have 'mastered' the deck and have shown it to their friend (the 's' is left off intentionally) and now want another effect and every time the dealer goes to show one the customer says, "no, you showed me that yesterday'

Truth is most customers are not performing magicians. They don't see the magic from the spectators point of view, nor are they really interested in putting a show together. They want to entertain themselves and perhaps a few friends. And there is nothing wrong with this. And it is indeed a process everyone of us (except for Mark Lewis because he was born a god) has gone through or are going through.

Once the real understanding happens it is as Lady of Mystery says, you begin to figure it out. You start to see if from the otherside and buy what fits you and your act and you pretty much know the score.

Sorry of I type too much on this subject but it is one that fascinates me to know end, part of the psychology of it all.

I'm sure we all usually figure a lot of effects out or atleast a variation. But, as mentioned the subtleties missed are often as equally important.
If I see something I like the look of I will buy it.

Usually as a mark of self respect and respect for the creator.

If I'm going to use an effect in a performance then it's an honour to have the creator(s) work in my library. If it's mass produced or organically self managed on a home computor, or however the creator chooses to put his/her work out then I respect that.

Joel.