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So your having the spectator predict the outcome? For such a big effect, which can be reputation builders, would you not want to have the glory to make a name for yourself?

Unless the method is crtical for the spec to do the work. I guess it depends on constraints and context.

even if the audience predicts it - you can still claim it as "you"...it was your influence that caused them to think what they did...

Thats what I was thinking from the start. I either don't do it, or I adress the problem head-on.
I am smiling now!!

Yeah of course, but just incase this was for building a reputation first off, it might be better to prove your skills and how you can predict things before letting the spec 'be the psychic' as it were, but again, its context isn't it..

IAIN wrote:even if the audience predicts it - you can still claim it as "you"...it was your influence that caused them to think what they did...

that was the idea...
and no its not essential that they predict it, although it does play a big role and make it much stronger. I can't go much further than that, but in a way yes, in another way no.

Edit: yeah, I'd prove myself first. This would be my Big Finale.

Well if it hightens the effect then i need no more convincing quids in i say!

I like R Shane's three stage prediction; predicting the end of the world. However it's not one your going to want to come true.

http://www.lybrary.com/portents-p-352.html

I've not had a chance to read through all this thread as I'm just heading our (TM addiction got the better of me, though!)

Depending on the date of the show, how about a World Cup prediction? I see you've said that football isn't really your thing but the World Cup is a such a huge phenomenon that the whole country will be wrapped up in it in a month or so!

The reason I've mentioned this is that I've already done some research into this as I've actually got a show lined up on July 12th - and I've already mailed the promoter my sealed envelope for the big finale revelations, where (amongst other things) I've predicted the scoreline of the previous day's World Cup final, along with the scorers and goaltimes (*cough*)

As I say, it depends when your show is, but the World Cup could provide a whole load of predictions (top scorer, most red/yellow cards, etc...)


Sean

I see a lot of posts on the board about people avoiding doing effects because of Derren Brown and I am always reminded of the episode of South Park "Simpsons Did It".

Derren is constantly in the public eye and as mentioned before any body who is on television as well as touring will need completely new material almost every time so as not to be seen as always doing the same thing. This inevitably means it becomes virtually impossible to do something completely unique, so I would not worry about it.

I am not saying do not be original but equally do not let the fact that it's been done before stop you from doing it because chances are, it's all been done before anyway.

It is also very important to remember that Derren was by no means the first to use the psychological explanation and also, many of his effects are heavily influenced by a several other Mentalists.

Thanks
A_n_t: this reminds me of what Tommy Woner used to say- and he was absolutley correct: that origionality is not found in trying not to be someone else, but trying to be you. Sure, there will be overlaps at times, but you won't be a clone.
Lenoir has made me think of another thing... for the Lottery, do you think I could get away with a mathematical/ psychological presentation, or has Derren made people to cynical? I am not always strict about being 'psychological' I use it to introduce what I do and then I slowly like to build upon those psychological ideas and explanations and leave the rest to people's own assumptions. It is a complex issue, but I always think autosuggestion is much more powerful than explicit authorotarianism, and this applies to mentalism presentation as well as it does to other things: implication and letting them make the next logical connection for themselves, I feel, is much, much more credible than coming out explicitly and saying 'and what I'm doing is influencing you... blah blah blah...'. Equally, if I am too subtle it becomes 'magic tricks' or what have you. Anyway, I ramble... but I hope that explains some questions.

Whatever is plausible to the persona you are trying to convey, it's just a case of being you again.

If Derren had claimed to have predicted the Lottery results using "psychic precognition" about 25% of his audience would have gasped and said "I knew he was psychic really." while the other 75% would have said, "yeah right" and felt completely alienated. However if Banachek did the same thing I think very few members of the audience would feel the same alienation, purely because of the way he presents.

The audience have a need to "know" how you do everything, but this knowledge is telegraphed by your actions, patter and presentation. People who pay to see a psychic do a Q&A "know" they use their sixth sense to answer the questions without ever seeing them, people who pay to see a mentalist "know" they read their objectives body language to determine the contents.

The trick is not to try and feed an explanation that they "know" is wrong...

I think this makes sense, if not ignore me, I am sure someone else will post something.

Thanks, it does make sense (if I am understanding you right).
Given that, I have been thinking it might even be better to leave it very ambiguous and capable of being interpreted in as many different was as I need. By not claiming psychic ability I am not alienating anyone, by not being too pushy, which I think it is in this case, with the psychological presentation anyone who wants to believe anything with conviction will.
In a way, I want my audience to think I have strange powers- not psychic ones- but I think it is futile to evade people thinking of you in some form of supernatural way, because when I was a lay person I did attribute a strange set of powers and mysticism to Derren when I saw him, despite being a horrible pushy rationalist and even though I 'knew' he was a physchologist. That is kind of what I am aiming for: I want to give people a taste of magic and mysticism ultimatley, over and above convincing them of some imaginary skills- and in the same way, if that doesn't quite make sense, then ignore me- it is something which I understand but I cannot entirley rationalise nor put down in ink accuratley... or cyber ink.

if your strange powers arent psychic in their origin...what are they?

an open question...by which i mean, if you dont claim you have some kind of gift/power of the mind - and its psychologically driven - what powers are left??