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by **eStreetMagic** » Mar 30th, '11, 22:49

No one seems to recommend any plastic cards for tricks. Given their durability I would have thought they'd make good practice cards, particularly for beginners like me. I've followed the general wisdom and bought Bicycle 808 Poker Gold Standard cards but I know they're going to get ruined quite quickly by my newbie fumbling... I know it's only a fiver a pack but it seems a waste... however, I don't want to learn on plastic cards and find my skills don't work on normal ones.

Any comments greatly appreciated.

by **jim ferguson** » Mar 30th, '11, 23:07

Regular cards are better for magic in my opinion. The plastic cards werent designed with the magician in mind. They are intended as novelties or for playing games. They handle differently to regular cards, and dont fan or spread well. There are many tricks however that they work fine for, so I suppose it just comes down to personal preferance.

Why dont you just use regular bikes, or seconds even, for practicing instead of the gold standards ?jim

by **eStreetMagic** » Mar 30th, '11, 23:13

Ah, I see plastics do handle radically differently then... happy I didn't waste money on those then

Seconds, yeah, that's a good point. Doh! I always work on the principle that when learning a new skill I need all the help I can get so tend to buy decent (not necessarily top) quality gear but in this instance I think you're spot on... I'll Google some seconds I can bend, dog ear and generally trash.

by **user24** » Mar 30th, '11, 23:18

I got a bag of swag from a work bash which included a deck of promotional plastic cards from ongame network (a poker software company).

The cards were produced by Fournier, the AS is marked as '2818 100% plastic'.

The cards are very slippy, in a similar way to the air cushioned finish - you can do a nice Erdnase colour change with them. They have the same thickness, width and height as standard poker bikes. They are impossible to tear and difficult to fold; it's more a sustained bend than a fold.

Also, when folding, the ink turns white along the fold, and remains white if you try to straighten. You can't straighten them enough to continue using normally. They also seem a little noisier than bikes, making a sort of scraping noise.

After playing with them for a week or two, I dropped the cards onto the table (oops) and a chunk of one literally snapped off.

So, don't know if that's a typical experience, but it's what happened with mine.

edit: also I agree that they're very hard to fan. In fact I haven't managed it yet, but then I haven't tried very hard.

by **jim ferguson** » Mar 30th, '11, 23:25

Yes, they handle differently. If your used to normal bikes then the details of certain moves have to be altered slightly when using the plastic cards. And forget fanning - it doesnt work even with a pressure fan (well it didnt for me). You should get yourself a set for the novelty as they are fun to play around with, but you cant beat a decent regular deck for magic, in my opinion

jim

by **jim ferguson** » Mar 30th, '11, 23:30

user24, the ones I have (well they belong to my son) are Bicycle brand and as I mentioned are useless for fanning and spreading. How does the deck you have compare ?

jimEdit : Ive just noticed youve edited your post and mentioned fanning

by **user24** » Mar 30th, '11, 23:35

yep - 'not the best' for fanning. As for spreading, I hadn't tried until you mentioned just now, let's have a go...

hrm, spreading is better than fanning - with the fan I literally just get it split into three or four chunks around my hand (whereas with a worn bicycle deck I can fan such that you can read the indices of about half the deck on a good day. Not perfect, but decidedly better than three.). I can spread so you can see about 15 or so cards. Still not great, but with practice you could probably get a good enough spread going.

by **Arkesus** » Mar 31st, '11, 00:00

Just to cpoint out. I have never heard of "Gold Standard" bikes, so am unsure if this is some fancy marketing I've just not sought out, or slang for "industry favourite".

Also, fiver a deck sounds very steep.

by **user24** » Mar 31st, '11, 09:45

Arkesus wrote:Just to cpoint out. I have never heard of "Gold Standard" bikes

I just had a look on amazon - here's the blurb:

Richard Turner's brand new Gold Seal Bicycle Cards are now available. Richard was asked many times to employ the same card-making standards he developed for his Gamblers Cards to create a top range deck of the most popular playing cards ever produced, the 808 Rider Back Bicycles. Richard was asked to include two traditional matching Jokers in his deck, as well as a blank card with the Rider Bike back to use in reverse fans. Each deck of Gold Seal Bicycle Cards is constructed using Bee stock, renowned for its flexibility yet long-lasting durability. They are stamped to a caliper/thickness to facilitate classic moves like bottom & centre dealing & are embossed to a depth that does not break down the structural integrity of the card yet still allows each card to breathe properly, thereby reducing the gum-up and hangers often caused by finger moisture but, most importantly, since these cards were manufactured to Richard's demanding specifications, they are Traditionally Cut! Unlike most of the cards manufactured today, the cutting blade used in traditionally cut cards starts at the face of each card and punches through to its back. As a result, a sharp edge is created on the backside of each card and a rounded edge, which facilitates a flawless weave during each shuffle, is formed on the card's face. Traditionally cut cards ensure that card men and magicians can easily interlace the cards to produce crisp, clean shuffles, especially with some of the more intricate shuffling techniques like the one-handed shuffle, and the faro shuffle, both in-hand, and on the table. For over 100 years traditional card cutting was the norm, but the process was changed about fifteen years ago. Casinos demand traditionally cut cards, and so does Richard Turner. Shouldn't you? If you demand the very best, be sure to look for the Gold Seal and gold label certifying that your deck is Traditionally Cut for the Professional.

from http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bicycle-Playing ... B001SOCM5S

eStreetMagic - I think most people go for the £2 a throw standard bikes eg these ones: http://www.cards4magic.co.uk/acatalog/x ... Cards.html

by **V.E. Day** » Mar 31st, '11, 10:58

Plastic cards are ideal for doing magic underwater, eg if you get hired to do magic at one of those underwater weddings where the bride and groom are dressed up as scuba divers. Imagine the embarrassment there could be if you only had a regular cardboard deck with you.

by **bmat** » Mar 31st, '11, 17:11

Best bet is to practice with what you are going to use in performance. Stay away from all the fancy shmancy cards. A deck of regular bikes is always the way to go. They don't cost that much and they work great and you don't have to be afraid of ruining them. Also don't forget you don't have to play with a full deck. Just because you used the 2 of clubs for a torn and restored effect doesn't mean you can't perform your ambitious card with the same deck.

by **eStreetMagic** » Apr 1st, '11, 00:23

Thanks for all the help everyone... total unanimity if I'm not mistaken, that's rare on forums. Try going to a mountain bike forum and asking "hard tail or full suspension" it's a total bunfight that will leave you confused and dazed!

by **Heckler** » Apr 1st, '11, 09:41

eStreetMagic wrote:Thanks for all the help everyone... total unanimity if I'm not mistaken, that's rare on forums. Try going to a mountain bike forum and asking "hard tail or full suspension" it's a total bunfight that will leave you confused and dazed!

Now if you really want a bun fight, go on a road bike forum and ask "Should I wear a helmet?"

I have to say the right choice of cards makes a hell of a difference, I made a number of stalled attempts to work through RRTCM over the years and gave up frustrated, each time using whatever cards I had knocking around the house (usually plastic and usually poker sized). Bought myself a couple of packs of bikes and suddenly everything clicked into place.

The only problem I've found is when laying a double down, the slipperyness of the bikes can cause the cards to slip, but I've adjusted my technique and place them more deliberately and problem solved.

by **The_Outlaw** » Apr 3rd, '11, 08:48

eStreetMagic wrote:No one seems to recommend any plastic cards for tricks. Given their durability I would have thought they'd make good practice cards, particularly for beginners like me. I've followed the general wisdom and bought Bicycle 808 Poker Gold Standard cards but I know they're going to get ruined quite quickly by my newbie fumbling... I know it's only a fiver a pack but it seems a waste... however, I don't want to learn on plastic cards and find my skills don't work on normal ones.

Any comments greatly appreciated.

Plastic cards are not very good for most card sleights.
They stick/clump together and don't fan well at all.
But plastic cards are excellent for playing actual card games because they are hard to mark or bend and they last a lot longer than the pasteboards do.
But when it comes to card sleights, card magic and flourishing, pasteboards are the way to go. I recommend Tally-Ho's.

by **gunnarkr** » Apr 3rd, '11, 19:00

One positive thing about plastic cards though, you can practice your magic in the shower! :twisted:

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