talkmagic.co.uk

TonyB wrote:Jim, when you were fixing guitars you were an expert doing a great job. But would you really have called yourself a professional instrument repairman? I don't think so.

You are correct - I wouldnt have classed myself as a professional instrument repairer

You are also correct when you say that professional means making a living from something - the word does indeed mean that. But it also means the definition Im talking about. To me professional means professionalism, if you know what I mean. To you it means being paid - we are both right. It just seems we both favour different definitions of the word

jim

Ok, at the moment,
I have another job, and I hope to within the next year or two, phase that out and phase in the magic.
I charge what I think my magic is worth - it's not the the most expensive, but I don't give it away either.

What angers me most is when people have been in magic a few months, they've got their website and business cards saying they are 'professional' and they hike up their prices with the excuse of 'people will pay it'.

I think that to misrepresent yourself and deceive people about your level of ability is immoral, and does not help the art of magic. If you can't provide the value of what the customer pays, then they won't book you or any other magician next time.

As for me, my website says I am a professional magician, and I honestly believe I provide a professional service - yes in terms of 'professionalism' and experience and as people have said, I am motivated to earn a living from this, shortly.

I have even noticed a couple of people who refer to themselves as professional within a few weeks of taking magic up as a hobby. Doesnt look good in my books, it almost implies that a whole career can be learnt in like a month

A whole month? I'm not sure that I'd have the Patience

I agree with much of what Jing has written and I'm in a similar situation myself.

People seem to like 'labelling' themselves and It's how your customers 'label' you that counts.

I've seen some fantastic amatuers and some appaling pro's in my time and more often than not it's the ones that harp on about being a 'Pro' that fall into the second category.

There is a difference between being a "professional" and a "perfeshanal"
Read "Our Magic" by Maskelyne and Devant to find out the difference.

Hi Jim. We are not so far apart. What you regard as professional I regard as having a professional attitude. It's all semantics, but as a part-time (semi-pro) author, semantics are my business.

I know several amateurs whom I would respect above most professionals, because they are better. But I think in most areas of life those who define themselves as professional because they get paid end up either getting good, or getting out. Your audience won't pay you unless you can perform consistently to a high standard.

As for the guys who call themseves a pro after six weeks, they bug the hell out of me. One guy who posts on themagiccafe took it up in January, but has a website describing himself as award-winning, and San Francisco's best. Wow - more neck than a giraffe.

I thought Ken Weber in Maximum Entertainment make an interesting he says

"Professionals perform a small number of effects to large numbers of people and hobbyists perform large numbers of effects to a small number of people."

Interesting thread fellas.

Magic for me is a hobby. I do not get paid to do it, not do I charge for performances. I do like to think however, that I take a very professional attitude towards my magic.

What I mean by this is that I strive for the standards that would (in my mind ) be needed to be a professional magician - a commitment to nothing less than excellence, and a strong, polished, well rehersed, well structured act. I do not perform any 'cute' effects or 'fillers', I am 100% comitted to the school of 'Strong Magic'. I continually strive to make my card act the best it can possibly be.

My main motivation for this is that I beleive that quality close-up magic is becoming a dying craft (a topic for another thread).Very few people get to see close-up magic (that isn't on TV), so I make sure that when they are watching me perform, that they are seeing the best material I am capable of presenting. This (for me) is the core of being a 'professional'.

I don't think anyone actually makes a living as a working pro in the UK. Look at the best magicians in the country James Brown (has milkshake shop franchise), Guy Hollingworth (barrister) etc
It's very hard to make an average wage from just magic so I don't think there really are any so called working pros, so the discussion is redundant!

magical jon wrote:I don't think anyone actually makes a living as a working pro in the UK. Look at the best magicians in the country James Brown (has milkshake shop franchise), Guy Hollingworth (barrister) etc
It's very hard to make an average wage from just magic so I don't think there really are any so called working pros, so the discussion is redundant!

Disagree:

Lee Smith
Richard Bellars

to name just 2 from this forum!

I am a pro as well.

Stephen Ward wrote:I am a pro as well.

I was unsure whether it was your sole income, so apologies there!

And it proves my point further

You're also forgetting people like Paul Brook etc, who also supplement their income from sales amongst the magic fraternity

Once again, please accept my apologies Mr Ward!

No problem! Yes, my sole income, the books i write are just extra money. The income comes from shows. Also we have themagicwand, he is a pro.

I'm a full time pro too.

Sorry Mark! i forgot!