talkmagic.co.uk

sleightlycrazy wrote:If I may, Anthony, I'd like to add to the opposition to excessive use of trick decks. My main issue with most magicians who use trick decks is the utter lack of art in it. Eric Mead recently pi**ed off many magicians by publicly calling hack magicians hacks. If you do magic that is unoriginal (e.g. tricks learned verbatim through books or DVDs) and present them the exact same way as every other magician (adding a cheesy line or two doesn't count) you are not an artist. And when people use trick decks, it's usually because they are sold as a "quick and easy" way to become the life of the party. Not. Art.

Granted, some trick decks allow for more creativity and artistic use than others; Mark Lewis and Andy Nyman use the svengali deck in a way that is creative and original. Nyman and Derren Brown have used silly trick decks like forcing decks or rough and smooth to devastatingly subtle effect. BUT, they are exceptions, not the rule. 99% of magicians who use trick decks use lame patter and go through one of several cookie-cutter ID presentations. The ID, as effective as it is, is veritably antithetical to art in magic. It's strong, it's impressive, and it amazes laypeople. But it isn't art. And I think that's what bugs some magicians about it and trick decks in general.

So it's not the method vs. presentation that is the issue. I doubt anyone will really argue that method sans good presentation is the way to go...

magicrob wrote:Eermm... yes....

We seem to have wandered off topic - maybe you guys could start a thread to discuss these other issues?

hds02115 wrote:

sleightlycrazy wrote:If I may, Anthony, I'd like to add to the opposition to excessive use of trick decks. My main issue with most magicians who use trick decks is the utter lack of art in it. Eric Mead recently pi**ed off many magicians by publicly calling hack magicians hacks. If you do magic that is unoriginal (e.g. tricks learned verbatim through books or DVDs) and present them the exact same way as every other magician (adding a cheesy line or two doesn't count) you are not an artist. And when people use trick decks, it's usually because they are sold as a "quick and easy" way to become the life of the party. Not. Art.

Granted, some trick decks allow for more creativity and artistic use than others; Mark Lewis and Andy Nyman use the svengali deck in a way that is creative and original. Nyman and Derren Brown have used silly trick decks like forcing decks or rough and smooth to devastatingly subtle effect. BUT, they are exceptions, not the rule. 99% of magicians who use trick decks use lame patter and go through one of several cookie-cutter ID presentations. The ID, as effective as it is, is veritably antithetical to art in magic. It's strong, it's impressive, and it amazes laypeople. But it isn't art. And I think that's what bugs some magicians about it and trick decks in general.

So it's not the method vs. presentation that is the issue. I doubt anyone will really argue that method sans good presentation is the way to go...

I'm confused, you say you want to add to the opposition but what you're saying is what I would agree with. I think either I'm misunderstanding how you started this post or you've not read my posts correctly. Either way, I'm not going to talk much more about this as I'd rather not disrupt this thread further.