talkmagic.co.uk

The title indicates that the conclusion is pre-ordained. Rather appropriate in some ways.

If someone genuinely believes in the power of the Tarot, and gives a sitter a "genuine" Tarot reading, where is the swindle? Maybe the things said don't come true, but there is no swindle any more than a horse racing tipster is swindling someone when his newspaper column fails to pick the winner. Some say it's always a swindle because there is no such thing as a "real" reading. That may be true (at least for them), but it doesn't sound good to prejudge the issue in the title.

You need to consider at least a couple of things. What do you mean by "cold reading" and what do you mean by "psychic"?

If you don't answer those questions at the start of your thesis, you will flounder around hopelessly. It's one of the reasons why internet debates on these subjects are often pointless; those discussing the subject aren't using the same definitions.

Plenty of psychics do not believe there is anything spiritual about their power. Also, not every shut-eye (another term that has more than one meaning) learned how to do things from a mentor or from family. Lots of people buy a Tarot deck, runes or whatever out of curiosity and start using them. They believe these things work, because they seem to work.

Aargh! I spent ages writing all sorts of things and honing my words, and then the post vanished. I'll try again.

One very fundamental question hasn't been addressed yet. If "psychic ability" exists at all, what is it, or how do people (you and the people you're interviewing) interpret the term? Is it some sort of natural mental ability that some or all humans have, but only a few can consciously control? Or is it the ability to contact some sort of spirit realm? Modern stage psychics seem to go for the spirit explanation, but in the 1960s and '70s the consensus was on the side of mental ability (e.g. Kreskin, Uri Geller). The word "psychic" has been used so loosely that it covers both.

Some serious scientific experiments are demonstrating the possibility that some "paranormal" abilities are actually normal, if unrecognised, functions of the human brain. The longest-running experiment is the one investigating whether people can tell when they're being stared at. A more recent study on precognition has produced preliminary results showing that people may be able to predict emotionally charged events (presentation of erotic pictures) more accurately than neutral events (presentation of landscape pictures).

We know that some people have taught themselves muscle reading while sincerely believing they were honing some kind of telepathic power. If some "paranormal" mental abilities are in fact real, it's within the bounds of possibility that some people have trained themselves to become more aware of these functions while believing them to be psychic -- and in a sense they would be right!

Similarly, since cold reading is basically a fine-tuned application of ordinary observation and common sense, it seems very likely that some people have developed this ability while at the same time sincerely believing they've learnt to receive "psychic vibrations". I've read books on palmistry, Tarot, and even astrology where the authors say something like "I take the person's palm, but rather than doing a textbook reading of the lines, I just get feelings about the sitter's personality and problems" -- this is probably an unconscious application of cold reading.

Your questions also touch on areas of personal belief, spirituality, and religion. For example, I'm an occultist. I perform divinations using Tarot and other means; I draw up horoscopes; I cast spells; I attempt to contact otherworldly beings and realms. But to me these are serious spiritual activities, completely separate from mentalism effects, cold readings, or seances done for entertainment purposes. So asking me "do you believe in psychic abilities" is an enormously complicated question that I just can't answer in a questionnaire.

I have explained how genuine psychic power works in the past but I am not sure anyone took any notice. I may have to do it again. I wish I had the energy.

mark lewis wrote:I wish I had the energy.

Try holding a rose quartz while you type.

mark lewis wrote:We must be gentle with Cryshayn even if we disagree with her. I was quite perturbed at the rudeness she received when she posted the above on the magic cafe.

I agree.

mark lewis wrote:I have explained how genuine psychic power works in the past but I am not sure anyone took any notice. I may have to do it again. I wish I had the energy.

It's okay, I read your mind instead.

mark lewis wrote:We must be gentle with Cryshayn even if we disagree with her. I was quite perturbed at the rudeness she received when she posted the above on the magic cafe.

Thank you Mark!

For those still left wondering what the heck I’m trying to do, and what I’m asking, please let me try again:

I am working on the final project for my Senior Seminar in Writing for my BA at UC Denver. The paper (the equivalent length and effort of a 20 page research paper [for most students, this is dubbed your senior thesis project]) is to be a discussion piece on ethics with the conclusion based on my own opinion and findings.

I admit that I do have an opinion going into this (this being my original post and questions): I believe that the intentions of the reader matter. I believe that a non-believing mentalist can be just as earnest as a natural medium. I do, however, want to know more. I want to know what the psychics and mentalists themselves think, and what the general public thinks. I want to hear more about the supernatural element that leaves people still believing.

My posts on Craigslist and Facebook, whilst not scientific, have garnered some great contacts for me, as well as providing general public feedback (without having to stand outside in 40-degree weather with printed questionnaires or a microphone).

http://denver.craigslist.org/com/2691931704.html" target="_blank

http://denver.craigslist.org/com/2691975097.html" target="_blank


I am meeting with a local mentalist (Professor Phelyx) on Monday, as well as setting up two phone appointments with mentalists in The States, and corresponding via email with another mentalist in the UK. Similarly, I’m meeting with a local psychic next week, as well as communicating via phone and email with several US psychics who have responded to my request for assistance. I’ve posted on a few different forums for magicians and psychics, but Magic Café turned into mudslinging and the psychics just don’t seem to care or want to discuss it as much…

I will be covering definitions of mediums, psychics, mentalists, Barnum statements, cold reading, tarot cards, palmistry, etc. I will cover the differences and utilizations. Then move into how these skills are used to give a reading. I will discuss the differences between entertainment readings and fortune telling. I will cover as much of what I am able to understand and express.

I’ll also be including a section how touchy the subject is and why it is controversial, even for the general public, since everyone has an opinion.

My teacher asked us to pick a topic that would really get a conversation rolling, and I think I’ve done that. The format is appropriate to my coursework, since it is not to be a 500 page statistical analysis. I’m still working on an outline – Hence asking for information and feedback. Your input helps me craft my writing framework. Thank you again to those that have been helpful in their approach to my paper.

I am making lemonade out of the lemons of the negative comments and constructive criticism I’ve received, since they have helped me reword and reexamine some of my questions and lines of thought. I also appreciate the honest feedback and sincere offerings of assistance I’ve received on various forums and via email.

I hope this helps put my topic and approach into perspective a little. From here out, I’ll just be looking for answers, suggestions, offers of assistance (many thanks to those that have contacted me personally), and leads (some that I’m already pursuing: Brad Henderson’s The Dance, Luke Jermay and Derren Brown DVDs, various e-books by Voodini, as well as various books on psychic experiences, etc..)

Thank you all,

Laura

It's very refreshing to have a learned discussion on such a wide ranging and potentially devisive topic!

I'd like to recommend (as well as plead for) some research into framing, especially given the primary sources you have listed. Goffman's Frame Analysis is still the "go to" source; not always an easy read, but I think issues of presentation are vital here (as has been mentioned by several other posters).

I emailed you to say I'd be happy to complete the questionnaire...no response as of yet. Deeply hurteddd.

As with many things in ethics, I think the intentions matter a lot, but the outcomes are also important. The effect on the client is the most important thing, however it's done.

If you can have a listen to Wonder Readings by Kenton Knepper and Rex Sikes (only available as audio), that will give you an excellent example of the most ethical end of pure non-believing cold reading. The main point of Wonder Readings is to teach cold-reading methods, but they impress the listener with the idea that -- from the client's point of view -- a reading is more than just a mentalism effect. Their aim is always to leave clients feeling better about themselves and hopeful for the future.

A reader is almost in the position of a counsellor. The client wants advice or reassurance or permission to get something off her chest. The reader needs to be able to listen well, provide reasonable common-sense advice, and guide the client to professional sources of help if necessary. A good cold reader will do all this, and in a professional manner, since he's knowingly using the psychological principles involved.

I've heard stories (but can't confirm them) that some shut-eye "true believer" psychics -- with the best of intentions -- have done psychological harm by "channelling" bad advice, especially in the form of harmful self-fulfilling prophecies, which are easy to give if you're not careful.

When you get to the out-and-out charlatans, they can be downright dangerous if they prefer to rake in extra money for "curse removal" than refer the client to a doctor. They're also the most likely to get a vulnerable client hooked into a dependent relationship.

There is an intellectual study somewhere or other by a chap called Chris Roe of Northampton University on these matters. Naturally I was mentioned several times as befits my distinguished status. I think this may be of some use to this young lady in her research. She will have to hunt for it on the internet I suppose. I tried to find it but it drove me up the wall and since it is her project I shall let her expend the energy instead. It is called "Cold Reading Strategies" as I recall.

Oh, I have just changed my mind. Never mind Chris Roe. I shall explain what it is all about here for the young lady.

For those of you who are interested in the unholy art of doing psychic readings I thought I should give away some information on how it all works. I happen to be psychic myself and have a lot of experience in this area. Here is how it all works. I bet even Randi would accept this explanation.

I am afraid that many people do not understand psychic ability. If I knew everything I could predict the Lotto. However that is NOT what psychic ability is for and is not the way it works. I have suggested in the past that sceptics define what they mean by "psychic". They never seem to be able to do so.

My definition is a trifle less spectacular and ludicrous than other psychic people. I would merely call it heightened intuition. When you do this kind of work you become very sharp indeed. The psychic stuff happens at a deep subconcious level and there is nothing whatever mysterious about it. We all have it but naturally someone who does it all the time has sharpened skills. I believe I know why it works too.

If someone sits down in front of me I know all about them within seconds without them saying a word. In fact I prefer them not to speak since I like the sound of my own voice and I know perfectly well if they start yapping to me I will never get rid of them.

Now how do I do this? I sense things. And 70% of the time I am correct. You can't expect 100%. This is not an exact science like mathematics.

And how do I sense things? At first I was not entirely sure but now I believe I know what is going on. It is all perfectly simple.

Things happen at a subliminal level. Let us assume someone comes into me ten years previously. That person has marital problems. They have a relative who is ill. They also have money problems. They work say in the legal profession.

In the reading they will manifest certain signs and behaviours. I will have no idea what they are. And it is a very hard thing to explain. It is more than body language although no doubt that is part of it. They will have a certain look and there will be a certain feel for the situation.

Over the next 10 years the psychic will see hundreds of different clients but they will all have variations of the same problems. In actual fact there are very few scenarios. Most people come because of love problems and there are only a few situations that come up all the time. Same with money. Health issues and work issues. There are probably no more than about 20 or so different scenarios that come up all the time. I haven't counted them but that is my estimate.

Now here is the interesting thing. Each person will manifest the same signs, micro expressions and body language that people in similar situations will do. Again and again and again. The psychic doesn't have to study these indications. Indeed most psychics may not even be aware of them. However they will pick them up subliminally and not even know that they are doing so.

So ten years later a similar client to the one the psychic saw 10 years ago comes in with an identical set of problems. Or at least some of the same problems. He or she will also give off the same indications that someone did 10 years ago. Psychics who are not as brilliant as myself will delude themselves that because they know the chap is a lawyer, has marital problems and money troubles they will assume that God has given them great and wondrous powers that are not available to the rest of humanity.

They do not realise why they know what they know. I believe that through having done thousands upon thousands of readings they are picking up on subliminal signs that are the same every time. So they call themselves psychic.

I do believe 100% in the Tarot cards. Not because I believe they have certain supernatural powers embedded in them. I do not believe in Jung's theory of synchronicity even if I knew what the hell it was. I believe that the cards come up at random. However for very logical reasons which I do not have the energy to explain they WILL help the psychic to tune in to the client's life. They simply help the intuition process that I have already explained.

I can always tell if a lawyer is sitting in front of me. It happens very rarely but when it does I always know it. I know when a journalist or nurse is sitting in front of me. I know when I have a businessman. I know when I have a cop coming in for a reading (much more common than you might think)

How do I know? Pure intuition and experience. Not psychic you may say? I don't care what you call it as long as the client pays. The sceptics don't pay my rent so their opinion doesn't really matter.

What I am talking about is nothing whatever to do with Sylvia Browne or the claptrap that TV mediums come out with. I am not into guessing games the way they are. I am not a psychic medium and I do not contact dead people.

I do know when a close friend or relative of my client has passed away because this certainly fits into the limited scenarios that comes up as I explained earlier. And I sense the signs of it even though I have never bothered to analyse what those signs are. I just know. However I never contact the person because I know perfectly well that I can't.

Many psychics are sincere people who unfortunately are hampered by belief. That is why they get some things right and some things wrong. Luckily for them most people forget the wrong things and concentrate on the right.

There are very few outright frauds in the psychic business except of course some of the TV mediums and the gypsy type psychics. However there are indeed gifted people who do not understand where their power comes from and consequently are prone to deluding themselves as to what is going on.

I must emphasise that I never try to analyse how people are reacting. I barely look at the client. I am concentrating on their palm or the tarot cards. I pick up their reactions at a subliminal level. It is interesting to note that the more tired I am the more accurate the readings are. That is because the logical analytical part of mind closes down and the "psychic" part (for want of a better word) sharpens up.

There. Now you know what it is all about.

That is very interesting indeed. Except for the Tarot Cards and Palm reading part I can almost believe it, because you are highlighting a subconcious understanding of peoples 'tell's' etc. However 'psychic' means to know things which are unknowable through extrasensory perception. That, in my opinion, is completely impossible. In this case you would need to rename what you do because most of it you are saying is to do with reading people through potentially learn-able methods.

MisterRawlings wrote:through potentially learn-able methods.

Possibly but, there again, some people simply can't learn some things. Technically it's straightforward enough to learn a foreign language or ballroom dancing but many folks simply can't master them. Perhaps the successful 'psychics' are those who are naturally more adept at reading people?